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Old 05-14-2018, 09:23 PM
 
Location: So California
8,564 posts, read 8,901,044 times
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The 90s Bulls would win a title this year, fairly easily. This Houston team is not as good as the 90s version. GS is good, but Jordan would be the X factor to take them over the top. Cleveland is done. Boston lacks superpower right now.


The teams that Jordan beat were very good and he's 6/6 which means more.
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Old 05-14-2018, 09:51 PM
 
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Jordan didn’t have to leave the Bulls to win any titles. Jordan played in 1998 against the Jazz with flu symptoms, LeBron had to be carried off the court one playoff game because of leg cramps. All you need to know about the media creation of LeFlop
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Old 05-15-2018, 04:48 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas, NV
354 posts, read 250,764 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gladhands View Post
He couldn't win until the Lakers, Celtics and Pistons got old. There were no great teams during his 90s reign. Not one. None of those Knicks teams was better than Dwight Howard's Orlando Magic.

I believe there are four reasonable answers to the GOAT question: Wilt, Kareem, MJ and Lebron. No wrong answers there, but Six-Rings Dogmatism is silly. The rings don't tell the story.
People love to deify Jordan and I just don't get it. They say he'd beat Lebron 1-on-1 and that to me is just laughable. Jordan was better at FTs, getting steals and minimizing turnovers...and that's it. Per 36, James is vastly superior in rebounding, passing and is a far more efficient shooter with higher percentages in 2s and 3s. Defensively, they're a wash in their statistics though James has slightly more defensive win shares.

Also consider their career arcs. Jordan's stats take a nosedive after his first 6 years when his team gets better around him, his percentages drop a lot (.516 to .484) after the 89-90 season. James has been getting better with age for the most part.

Combine all that with the fact that ALL ATHLETES, ESPECIALLY NBA PLAYERS are better nowadays due to the proliferation of year-round training, national tournament and travel teams, far better competition faced throughout youth ball and beyond and far better training techniques and scouting reports, and you see why it's foolish to suggest that Jordan would "beat Lebron 21-0" in 1-on-1 as I have seen many people claim.

PS I say all this as a die-hard life-long Warriors fan who at one time counted his favorite player as Adonal Foyle for several years.
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Old 05-15-2018, 05:07 PM
 
11,680 posts, read 7,068,989 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HedgeYourInvestments View Post
People love to deify Jordan and I just don't get it. They say he'd beat Lebron 1-on-1 and that to me is just laughable. Jordan was better at FTs, getting steals and minimizing turnovers...and that's it. Per 36, James is vastly superior in rebounding, passing and is a far more efficient shooter with higher percentages in 2s and 3s. Defensively, they're a wash in their statistics though James has slightly more defensive win shares.

Also consider their career arcs. Jordan's stats take a nosedive after his first 6 years when his team gets better around him, his percentages drop a lot (.516 to .484) after the 89-90 season. James has been getting better with age for the most part.

Combine all that with the fact that ALL ATHLETES, ESPECIALLY NBA PLAYERS are better nowadays due to the proliferation of year-round training, national tournament and travel teams, far better competition faced throughout youth ball and beyond and far better training techniques and scouting reports, and you see why it's foolish to suggest that Jordan would "beat Lebron 21-0" in 1-on-1 as I have seen many people claim.

PS I say all this as a die-hard life-long Warriors fan who at one time counted his favorite player as Adonal Foyle for several years.
So Jordan is better at a lot of stuff and SIX championships = better.

It’s hilarious...do people realize that 6 is DOUBLE the amount Lebron has won in his very long career (Jordan basically only played 11 full seasons). That’s A LOT of winning and GOAT level stats concentrated in 11 seasons.

There’s not enough hand waving magic one can do to make me think 3 basically equals 6. One player also has something like 2011 on his resume whereas the other basically never tasted defeat for a decade.
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Old 05-15-2018, 05:09 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas, NV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiehaskell View Post
So do we automatically assume that anyone born before say 1975 wasn’t as good as we think because there were less foreign players in their prime? Are all active players now, no matter how good destined to face the same argument if the league is eventually 35%, 40% or 50%+ foreign born? Adam Silver has already said he’s frustrated by the lack of Chinese players and he’s working with Yao Ming to fix it. Perhaps in 50 years people will be saying player X was good but he played before the Chinese talent explosion.
Yes.
And the explosion of travel basketball, AAU super teams travelling the country and fake high schools like Prolific and Findlay Prep that simply recruit basketball players around the country and then play a national schedule against teams like Oak Hill, Bishop Gorman, Mater Dei, Montverde Academy, IMG Academy, Memphis East, etc.

Kids born in 1996-now are living in a very different era than Jordan. They are scouted endlessly, are constantly at skills camps and facing off against elite talents, weeding out the pretenders and revealing the true studs that would've flown under the radar in previous generations. All youth sports are like this, but basketball is especially into this whole method with those fake basketball schools like Prolific and Findlay. Findlay Prep is a school with less than 20 total students...yet it had two kids at 7'3" this year. Yeah, two guys who would make Kevin Durant look short played on the same HS team.

Below is the list of this one fake school's alums over the past 10 years. Jordan never faced a team like this and therefore never gained the skills necessary to compete against such elite talent until he reached college. Players today can play in the league and contribute at a young age because of this shift in how youth basketball is.

DeAndre Liggins (Class of 2008) – New Orleans Pelicans
Avery Bradley (Class of 2009) – Los Angeles Clippers
Cory Joseph (Class of 2010) – Indiana Pacers
Tristan Thompson (Class of 2010) – Cleveland Cavaliers
Nick Johnson (Class of 2011) – Austin Spurs
Anthony Bennett (Class of 2012) – Maine Red Claws (former #1 overall pick)
Nigel Williams-Goss (Class of 2013) - KK Partizan
Gavin Schilling (Class of 2013) - Michigan State Spartans
Kelly Oubre Jr. (Class of 2014) – Washington Wizards
Dillon Brooks (Class of 2014) - Memphis Grizzlies
Rashad Vaughn (Class of 2014) - last played for Orlando Magic
Allonzo Trier (Class of 2015) - Arizona Wildcats; declared for 2018 NBA draft
P. J. Washington (Class of 2015) - Kentucky Wildcats; declared for 2018 NBA draft without an agent
Bol Bol (Class of 2018) - committed to Oregon Ducks

All of this is why I say that the NBA is vastly superior today than it was 20 years ago. Not even looking at the stats, this data proves it. Add in the fact that players are also bigger today (209 pounds in Jordan's era to 220 today) and can shoot far better, turn the ball over less and again, have unlimited access to advanced scouting and you can see how the league is vastly superior to an era when Jerome Kersey was the 3rd best player on the best team in the Western Conference...
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Old 05-15-2018, 05:11 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas, NV
354 posts, read 250,764 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiehaskell View Post
So Jordan is better at a lot of stuff and SIX championships = better.

It’s hilarious...do people realize that 6 is DOUBLE the amount Lebron has won in his very long career (Jordan basically only played 11 full seasons). That’s A LOT of winning and GOAT level stats concentrated in 11 seasons.

There’s not enough hand waving magic one can do to make me think 3 basically equals 6.
And you are proving the point that dim minds cannot comprehend that CHAMPIONSHIPS DO NOT EQUATE TO GREATNESS. If that's the case, Jordan isn't even a top 10 player cause a lot of guys won more than 6...

Plus, you are ignoring the whole aspect of BETTER COMPETITION.

But yeah, be as simplistic as possible in your argument. 6 is more than 3, good job graduating kindergarten.
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Old 05-15-2018, 05:21 PM
 
11,680 posts, read 7,068,989 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HedgeYourInvestments View Post
And you are proving the point that dim minds cannot comprehend that CHAMPIONSHIPS DO NOT EQUATE TO GREATNESS. If that's the case, Jordan isn't even a top 10 player cause a lot of guys won more than 6...

Plus, you are ignoring the whole aspect of BETTER COMPETITION.

But yeah, be as simplistic as possible in your argument. 6 is more than 3, good job graduating kindergarten.
Championships ARE a HUGE factor when comparing great players. HUGE. HUGE.

What players are Jordan’s equal offensively and defensively WITH 6+ championships? Please give me your top 10 players outranking Jordan.

And yeah, it’s typical for Lebron apologist to fall back on the “Lebron didn’t win as much because of the competition” argument. Hell, if that’s your argument just go ahead and throw out Magic, Bird, Kareem, Wilt, Russell and every other player that played before 2005. None of the are top 10.
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Old 05-15-2018, 10:53 PM
 
Location: Western Asia
3,187 posts, read 1,451,300 times
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I wouldn't say Jordan is better than Lebron simply because he has 6 rings versus Lebron has 3 but it is because Jordan took control and did everything required to win those 6 titles and Lebron hasn't.
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Old 05-15-2018, 11:45 PM
 
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Jordan is easily better than LeBron . Jordan didn’t have to go to another’s team to win a title. Jordan never cried the way this pansy does. And I won’t even count the Cavaliers 2016 title. Rigged, You had a team who won 73 games in regular season, up 3-1 I. The Finals, all of a sudden lose three straight, including Game 7 at home. It was like Golden State said “ we won it last year, let’s give LeBron a chance to win since he is back in Cleveland “.

And come this summer LeBron will be whoring around to latch onto another team to get a title. What a joke
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Old 05-16-2018, 04:37 AM
 
5,312 posts, read 3,342,190 times
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Originally Posted by sithlord72 View Post
And come this summer LeBron will be whoring around to latch onto another team to get a title. What a joke
At this point in his career, if Lebron just wants to collect more championship rings, he should just bite the bullet and go to Golden State next year and tell them he will play for $1/year or whatever the league minimum is and even come off the bench!

If he goes to the Warriors and is a contributor off the bench, he could possibly win 4 more titles in the next 4 years and get to 7 total, thus surpassing Jordan.
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