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Old 05-18-2018, 12:50 AM
 
332 posts, read 367,770 times
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One argument that LeBron Greatest of all-time (GOAT) people use is saying that he went against all-time great teams in the Golden State Warriors and that he can't do it all himself.

I agree with the first part of the statement in that the Golden State Warriors are one of the all-time great teams. I disagree with the second half of the statement in that he had Kyrie and Kevin Love (along with Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh in Miami) for help.


LeBron GOAT people then counter Jordan's 6-0 finals record with that Jordan went 1-9 in his first 10 playoff games.

Yet they hypocritically, purposely, and disingenuously leave out that Jordan had no help at all during those playoff games and twice had to face the Boston Celtics who had 4-5 Hall of Famers on their teams. Jordan had no Scottie Pippen, Horace Grant, or Dennis Rodman to help him then.

In fact, Bird had this to say about Michael Jordan in the 1986 series:

"I didn't think anyone was capable of doing what Michael has done to us," marveled Celtics ace Larry Bird. "He is the most exciting, awesome player in the game today. I think it's just God disguised as Michael Jordan."


Bird in his book then goes on to say that he thought the 1986 Celtics team was the best team he was on.


So in other words, LeBron GOAT people use the he had no help and going against all-time great team lines when it is convenient for them, but purposely leave that out when bashing Jordan's 1-9 record in his first 10 playoff games.
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Old 05-24-2018, 07:06 PM
 
156 posts, read 268,295 times
Reputation: 117
Defenses were near impenetrable during MJs era. Hand checking, followed by TWO bigs waiting to punish you in the paint. MJ still finished somehow...This era is all pace, space and minimally contested layups and dunks. Seeing multiple rim protectors/enforcers are a thing of the past. Of course stats are inflated as a result. Offenses aren’t better, defenses(schemes, rules,effort,etc.)have simply worsened.
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Old 05-24-2018, 07:49 PM
 
11,680 posts, read 7,067,088 times
Reputation: 6387
Let’s just put it to bed.

MJ - 1 DPOY
Bron - 0

MJ - 6 rings
Bron - 3 rings

MJ - 2 3-peats
Bron - 0 3-peats

MJ - 5 MVPs
Bron - 4 MVPs

MJ - 6 Finals MVPs
Bron - 3 Finals MVPs

MJ - 9x defensive 1st team
Bron - 5x defensive 1st team

MJ - 10 scoring titles
Bron - 1 scoring titles


When you also consider MJ’s scoring in the playoffs it’s not even close.

And to think...Jordan did all of the above in what amounts to about 11-12 full seasons. Lebron has been at it 15 years and counting.

Listen millennials - come to grips with the fact that you aren’t watching the best there has ever been.
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Old 05-24-2018, 10:00 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn the best borough in NYC!
1,991 posts, read 872,579 times
Reputation: 1111
Quote:
Originally Posted by gladhands View Post
He couldn't win until the Lakers, Celtics and Pistons got old. There were no great teams during his 90s reign. Not one. None of those Knicks teams was better than Dwight Howard's Orlando Magic.

I believe there are four reasonable answers to the GOAT question: Wilt, Kareem, MJ and Lebron. No wrong answers there, but Six-Rings Dogmatism is silly. The rings don't tell the story.
Agreed MJ played in an overall weak era. He gets credit for beating teams that were clearly inferior to his team and he gets credit for beating the Pistons even though he reality is he kept losing to the Pistons before he beat them!
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Old 05-24-2018, 10:01 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn the best borough in NYC!
1,991 posts, read 872,579 times
Reputation: 1111
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiehaskell View Post
Letís just put it to bed.

MJ - 1 DPOY
Bron - 0

MJ - 6 rings
Bron - 3 rings

MJ - 2 3-peats
Bron - 0 3-peats

MJ - 5 MVPs
Bron - 4 MVPs

MJ - 6 Finals MVPs
Bron - 3 Finals MVPs

MJ - 9x defensive 1st team
Bron - 5x defensive 1st team

MJ - 10 scoring titles
Bron - 1 scoring titles


When you also consider MJís scoring in the playoffs itís not even close.

And to think...Jordan did all of the above in what amounts to about 11-12 full seasons. Lebron has been at it 15 years and counting.

Listen millennials - come to grips with the fact that you arenít watching the best there has ever been.
Lebron is the better player! Millennial actually pay attention to detail while you old people worship people!
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Old 05-24-2018, 10:34 PM
 
11,680 posts, read 7,067,088 times
Reputation: 6387
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynJo View Post
Lebron is the better player! Millennial actually pay attention to detail while you old people worship people!
Solid evidence based response backed up by statistical analysis. Sounds like millennials simply FEEL something is better so therefore it is.
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Old 05-25-2018, 04:24 PM
 
1,250 posts, read 616,814 times
Reputation: 1342
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakers4kb View Post
Defenses were near impenetrable during MJs era. Hand checking, followed by TWO bigs waiting to punish you in the paint. MJ still finished somehow...This era is all pace, space and minimally contested layups and dunks. Seeing multiple rim protectors/enforcers are a thing of the past. Of course stats are inflated as a result. Offenses arenít better, defenses(schemes, rules,effort,etc.)have simply worsened.

But he had Pippen, but but...
And Pippen almost beat Ewing and the Knicks while MJ wasted 2 years in baseball.
And then there was Rodman....


All kidding aside, Jordan was able to raise the level of his teammates performances.
I'm an LBJ fan, but I have yet to see him do this.
Or beat a stacked Utah Jazz team with the flu.
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Old 05-26-2018, 12:04 PM
 
Location: BMORE!
7,750 posts, read 6,167,408 times
Reputation: 3601
Michael Jordan is the greatest basketball player that has ever lived. That being said, he beat up on stacked teams en-route to his 6 rings.
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Old 05-28-2018, 10:04 AM
 
Location: Elysium
6,606 posts, read 3,656,988 times
Reputation: 4596
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakers4kb View Post
Defenses were near impenetrable during MJs era. Hand checking, followed by TWO bigs waiting to punish you in the paint. MJ still finished somehow...This era is all pace, space and minimally contested layups and dunks. Seeing multiple rim protectors/enforcers are a thing of the past. Of course stats are inflated as a result. Offenses arenít better, defenses(schemes, rules,effort,etc.)have simply worsened.
In that era of Phi Slama Jama most of the stars, maybe except Abdul-Jabber and Bird, were able to do what Jordan did and get to the rim, one difference that most were not able to adapt and also hit three pointers in the same stress situations.

I don't know if defenses have worsened or because more people are able to and encouraged to shoot from further away to get the extra bonus point the balance of power has shifted. When in by gone eras people out in the present three point land were first ignored and then when a long range sharp shooters 6th man were on the floor you only worried about that one player out of what was traditionally a scoring position to stack the Jordan rules. Now three to five players able and told to take that shot are always on the floor.
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Old 05-28-2018, 06:37 PM
 
Location: The 719
14,600 posts, read 22,455,116 times
Reputation: 13883
Quote:
Originally Posted by gladhands View Post
He couldn't win until the Lakers, Celtics and Pistons got old. There were no great teams during his 90s reign. Not one. None of those Knicks teams was better than Dwight Howard's Orlando Magic.

I believe there are four reasonable answers to the GOAT question: Wilt, Kareem, MJ and Lebron. No wrong answers there, but Six-Rings Dogmatism is silly. The rings don't tell the story.
Jordan beat the best of the best, so he is the best.

LeBron James is the best player of the J.V. Team league which is the NBA Eastern Conference.

LeBron is the King of Junior Varsity Basketball and that is it.

Michael Jordan will always be >> LeBron James.

Deal with that, put it in your pipe and smoke it or whatever else it is you do.
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