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Old 06-02-2018, 04:14 PM
 
11,679 posts, read 7,040,185 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gladhands View Post
Don’t try to downplay Pippen’s rebound and assess numbers.

Jordan 1996. .415fg .316three 5.3 boards 4.2 assists
Jordan 1998: .427fg .308three 4 boards 2.3 assists

Lebron would get swept if he put up numbers like that. MJ shot .316 from three in 1996 with the short three-point line. LOL. LeBron has do the Jordan work and the Pippen work.
Jordan shot 43% in 98 but look at the volume...he averaged 33.5 ppg (at 34 years old). That’s over double what the next best scoring option produced.

Lebron has a finals in his absolute prime where he averaged 17.8 ppg. Now imagine Jordan putting up paltry numbers like THAT. The Heat’s 2nd option Wade put up 27 ppg. The 3rd option Bosh put up 19 ppg. Lebron was the 3rd leading scorer on his own team and **5th** leading scorer of the series...he was even outplayed by a 33 year old bench scrub Jason Terry that averaged 18 ppg on 49% shooting. Even in my wildest dream Jordan isn’t the 5th leading scorer in a NBA finals.

Lebron has a 22 ppg finals on 36% shooting. Tony Parker put up 25ppg on 57% shooting.

Lebron has another finals in 2013 where he put up 25 ppg on 45% shooting. His 2nd option put up 20 ppg on 48% shooting. That’s a 5 ppg gap with better efficiency. Did Jordan ever win a ring with his 2nd option being within 5 ppg?
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Old 06-04-2018, 06:22 AM
 
8,082 posts, read 5,282,893 times
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When is the Jordan vs Lebron debate ever end?? Jordan is the GOAT since we are still taking about this dude in 2018. He made the game of basketball into an international business. He made basketball sneakers into a hot consumer product. (hell you have kids killing each other over Jordan sneakers)

The debate should be Kobe vs Lebron.
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Old 06-04-2018, 06:45 AM
 
7,694 posts, read 4,551,558 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Ryu View Post
When is the Jordan vs Lebron debate ever end?? Jordan is the GOAT since we are still taking about this dude in 2018. He made the game of basketball into an international business. He made basketball sneakers into a hot consumer product. (hell you have kids killing each other over Jordan sneakers)

The debate should be Kobe vs Lebron.
LOL. No. Kobe/Duncan is a debate. Heís not in LeBronís class.
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Old 06-04-2018, 07:21 AM
 
8,082 posts, read 5,282,893 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gladhands View Post
LOL. No. Kobe/Duncan is a debate. Heís not in LeBronís class.
Please. Kobe vs Lebron is a debate. Kobe tore his achilles which shorten his career. Kobe won an Oscar too.

Kobe Bryant vs. LeBron James Comparison
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Old 06-04-2018, 11:57 AM
 
Location: Virginia Beach
4,205 posts, read 2,822,069 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Ryu View Post
Please. Kobe vs Lebron is a debate. Kobe tore his achilles which shorten his career. Kobe won an Oscar too.

Kobe Bryant vs. LeBron James Comparison
No, it isn't a real debate. Lol...
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Old 06-04-2018, 12:28 PM
 
8,082 posts, read 5,282,893 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
No, it isn't a real debate. Lol...
5 vs 3??

1 Oscar vs 0 Oscar???

The Black Mamba vs The King?
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Old 06-04-2018, 08:29 PM
 
Location: So California
8,531 posts, read 8,869,462 times
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Jordan won with pretty good teams in an era superior to todays. You have to look at how players played at their worst, and Lebron has a more extensive 'worst' resume, where Jordan's is that he took two years off and maybe could have won one or two more titles. You think it wouldn't have been 8 straight finals? I do, and can you ever imagine Jordan scoring 7 or 8 points in a playoff game? Nope, not unless he got hurt in the first quarter...

Here’s a look at every playoff game where James shot 30.8 percent or worse from the field (via Basketball Reference):
DATE TEAM FG FA FG% PTS
4/25/06vs. Washington 7-25 .280 26
6/2/07vs. Detroit 3-11 .273 20
6/7/07vs. San Antonio 4-16 .250 14
5/6/08at Boston 2-18 .111 12
5/8/08at Boston 6-24 .250 21
5/11/10vs. Boston 3-14 .214 15
4/16/11vs. Philadelphia 4-14 .286 21
6/7/11at Dallas 3-11 .273 8
5/28/14at Indiana 2-10 .200 7
5/14/15at Chicago 7-23 .304 15
5/21/17vs. Boston 4-13 .308 11

15.5 pts/game average

Now here’s Jordan’s playoff games with the same requirements:
DATE TEAM FG FA FG% PTS
4/28/87 vs. Boston 9-30 .300 30
5/29/93 vs. N.Y. Knicks 3-18 .167 22
5/12/96 at N.Y. Knicks 7-23 .304 27
6/16/96 vs. Seattle 5-19 .263 22
5/22/97 vs. Miami 4-15 .267 23
5/26/97 at Miami 9-35 .257 29

25.5 pts /game average

One could say James had more off nights than Jordan in the playoffs and leave it at that, but debates are never that easy. Let’s look at the other factors around those games to see if they even matter.


Did they win those games?

Jordan's teams still finished 4-2 in those playoff games, and one of the losses was in the first round of the 1987 playoffs against Boston in his third season. James' teams are 3-8 in that situation, but this is just the second off night he’s had since returning to Cleveland. The last game before Sunday happened in 2015 against the Bulls, a game the Cavaliers won by 21 points.

What went wrong?

Neither James nor Jordan could hit the 3-pointer consistently in those losses. In those 11 games, James wen 4 of 44 from 3-point range with five games at 0 of 4 or worse. Jordan, meanwhile, went 3 of 20 from 3-point range in those six games.

How did MJ offset that?

Jordan still managed to score more than 20 points in all of those games because he followed a simple basketball rule. If the shot isn’t falling, then drive to the basket and draw a foul. Jordan made double-digit free throws in all of those games, and he finished an amazing 76 of 85 (89.4 percent) from the line. He also averaged 8.8 rebounds, 6.2 rebounds and 2.2 steals per game while committing just 2.2 turnovers per game. An off night didn’t throw off the rest of MJ’s game.

How does LeBron offset that?

Same goes for James, with the exception of turnovers early in his career. James, however, had just three turnovers in the loss to Boston. He’s averaged 8.6 assists and 8.2 rebounds in those off nights, and he shot 74.5 percent from the line. James also impacts the game with his defense in the form of 1.4 blocks and 1.2 steals per game. James still makes an impact on the game in almost every other category.

How did they respond?

Jordan had a chance to respond after four of those off nights, and he averaged 37.8 points per game in the ensuing game. Jordan responded to the worst shooting night of his playoff career — a 3-of-18 effort against the Knicks in Game 3 of the Eastern Conference finals — with 54 points in Game 4. Chicago won both games to advance to the NBA Finals.

James averages 24.9 points per game in the follow-up game. James' teams are 5-4 in those games, and the only loss since the first stint in Cleveland again came after that bad game against Dallas in 2011. James has won three NBA titles since. We can probably stop harping on that series against the Mavs at this point. Chances are he'll respond properly in Game 4 on Tuesday.

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/amp/...71mx82wmudwlr8

Last edited by slo1318; 06-04-2018 at 08:56 PM..
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Old 06-06-2018, 09:46 AM
 
Location: Springfield, Ohio
12,193 posts, read 10,407,297 times
Reputation: 11208
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Ryu View Post
5 vs 3??

1 Oscar vs 0 Oscar???

The Black Mamba vs The King?
You must be a Laker fan. No one cares about the Oscars and Black Mamba is a nickname Kobe gave himself. Lebron never missed the playoffs in his prime, either.
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Old 06-07-2018, 08:33 AM
 
8,082 posts, read 5,282,893 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natural510 View Post
You must be a Laker fan. No one cares about the Oscars and Black Mamba is a nickname Kobe gave himself. Lebron never missed the playoffs in his prime, either.
Not a lakers fan. I live in NYC. I grew up with the Bulls, Knicks and Pacers.
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Old 06-07-2018, 11:32 AM
 
3,565 posts, read 1,872,849 times
Reputation: 2263
Quote:
Originally Posted by slo1318 View Post
Jordan won with pretty good teams in an era superior to todays. You have to look at how players played at their worst, and Lebron has a more extensive 'worst' resume, where Jordan's is that he took two years off and maybe could have won one or two more titles. You think it wouldn't have been 8 straight finals? I do, and can you ever imagine Jordan scoring 7 or 8 points in a playoff game? Nope, not unless he got hurt in the first quarter...
Today's era is better than the 90s. I am doubtful that the Bulls would have won 8 straight, but we needn't speculate. They won 3, then they won 3 again.

Comparing raw scoring numbers is a somewhat pointless exercise, in that LBJ plays in the zone defense era and MJ didn't. A dominant scorer is unstoppable in isolation, but zone defense prevents isolation opportunities.
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