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Old 06-17-2018, 04:47 PM
 
Location: Honolulu, HI
6,105 posts, read 1,831,732 times
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It’s funny to think that Lebron is about to be surpassed in rings by the big3 in GSW (KD still needs another one) with another win which brings them to #4

Sorry, but lebron cant be in the discussion of GOAT with only 3 rings. He’s needs atleast 5. That’s the amount Kobe and Duncan have
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Old 06-17-2018, 05:05 PM
 
Location: Virginia Beach
4,212 posts, read 2,831,702 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko20 View Post
Itís funny to think that Lebron is about to be surpassed in rings by the big3 in GSW (KD still needs another one) with another win which brings them to #4

Sorry, but lebron cant be in the discussion of GOAT with only 3 rings. Heís needs atleast 5. Thatís the amount Kobe and Duncan have
Bird is in the conversation with only 3, and if for some reason he isnt, he was for many years. Wilt is in the convo with only two...

The conversation has shifted anyway. Everybody knows Lebron was a better player than Kobe or Duncan. Duncan had high-level team success for his entire career; Kobe for most of his. Lebron has achieved high levels of success often in spite of his team...
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Old 06-18-2018, 07:11 AM
 
51,950 posts, read 41,815,822 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
Bird is in the conversation with only 3, and if for some reason he isnt, he was for many years. Wilt is in the convo with only two...

The conversation has shifted anyway. Everybody knows Lebron was a better player than Kobe or Duncan. Duncan had high-level team success for his entire career; Kobe for most of his. Lebron has achieved high levels of success often in spite of his team...
Bird was in the conversation pre-Jordan but honestly not since then.

I put him around Duncan and Kobe level and I agree that Lebron is in the tier above that.

As for rings arguments, Steve Kerr still has more player rings than Curry or Lebron.

Stacked teams (like Russells Celtics, GSW, Big 3 Miami) are supposed to win rings.
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Old 06-18-2018, 01:11 PM
Status: "RIP Solomon Tekah" (set 10 days ago)
 
1,226 posts, read 581,653 times
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LeBron isn't even pass Bird yet. Probably on par overall but certainly not pass Kobe or Duncan yet.
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Old 06-18-2018, 02:37 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,252,873 times
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Jordan was already considered by many to be GOAT before he had any rings. He's Bob Knight in 1988:

Quote:
It wasn't until four years later that Knight broke the news to Esquire's Mike Lupica that Jordan "is the best that will ever play this game. Bird and Magic are great players - they just aren't Michael Jordan."
https://www.deseretnews.com/article/...TEST-EVER.html

Here's an SI article from 1987.

Quote:
Sacramento Kings assistant coach Jerry Reynolds speaks to Jordan's versatility: "The thing is, every time you see him, he does something different. You might see a Dominique [Wilkins] or a [Clyde] Drexler and think they're just about as good. Then you see Jordan again and say, No way.... If you guarded him with one person straight up every night, he'd average 60. The other guys put on a great show, but Michael takes it to another level. And when he can concentrate on it, he's a totally great defensive player, as good as there is in the league. If he only had to score 15 or 16 a game, he'd be the best on defense."

Evidence is that Jordan's status in the NBA is nearing mythical proportions. In a sense, he's more of a cult figure within the league than he is out of it. That's how good he is. This is difficult to get a bead on, but a remark by Magic Johnson—no close friend of Jordan's, as we shall see—to a Los Angeles TV producer is definitive. "Everybody always says it's me and Larry [Bird]," said Magic. "Really, it's Mike and everybody else."
https://www.si.com/vault/1987/11/09/...-of-this-world

I think this has been common in other sports too. Tiger and Roger were both considered GOATs before they broke most of the records in their respective sports. I think the focus on RINGZZZ in the basketball GOAT discussion is something recent.
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Old 06-18-2018, 04:52 PM
 
803 posts, read 557,166 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 80s_kid View Post
LeBron isn't even pass Bird yet. Probably on par overall but certainly not pass Kobe or Duncan yet.
He's on par with Bird and close to Kobe, but certainly past Duncan. Stats have to matter somewhat. Duncan is way down, but of course he had a great team around him and didn't need to average 25+ pts. Jordan is still a class above everyone. If not for only 2 titles, I'd think Wilt is obviously in there. Russell only averaged 15.1 pts, 22.5 boards, 4.3 assists, 44% FG. Same as Duncan, had a great team around him so only didn't need to score as much, but only 44% FG.


LBJ - 27.2 pts, 7.4 boards, 7.2 assists, 54% FG
Jordan - 30.1 pts, 6.2 boards, 5.3 assists, 50.9% FG
Wilt - 30.1 pts, 22.9 boards, 4.4 assists, 54% FG
Bird - 24.3 pts, 10 boards, 6.3 assists, 51.4% FG
Kobe - 25 pts, 5.2 boards, 4.7 assists, 48.2% FG
Duncan - 19.0 pts, 10.8 boards, 3.0 assists, 50.7% FG
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Old 06-18-2018, 09:20 PM
 
51,950 posts, read 41,815,822 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 80s_kid View Post
LeBron isn't even pass Bird yet. Probably on par overall but certainly not pass Kobe or Duncan yet.
You offer no support to your claims. Just opinions without explaining why.

So basically. Garbage post.
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Old 06-19-2018, 12:50 AM
 
Location: Western Asia
3,187 posts, read 1,444,420 times
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I was bored this weekend and watched a lot of Jordan film and came away with the same conclusion I had previously, he is the GOAT. Jordan didn't play on "stacked teams" but he did play on teams with good defenders especially when Pippen came and then Rodman and Harper.


I thought about the matchup of the Bulls at their best and this current GS team and the Warriors have no one who could come close to defending Jordan, he would average over 40....I think the Warriors overall are as good and might win the series but I think the competitiveness of Jordan, Rodman and Pippen would most likely win out. So mental and defensive toughness versus the shooting clinic, your call?
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Old 06-19-2018, 08:22 AM
 
Location: Island of Misfit Toys
5,066 posts, read 2,185,934 times
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All this Jordan revisionism is funny. Clearly done by folks that didn't watch his career. Numbers lie, eyes do not.
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Old 06-19-2018, 10:13 AM
 
3,565 posts, read 1,875,735 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by American Expat View Post
I was bored this weekend and watched a lot of Jordan film and came away with the same conclusion I had previously, he is the GOAT. Jordan didn't play on "stacked teams" but he did play on teams with good defenders especially when Pippen came and then Rodman and Harper.


I thought about the matchup of the Bulls at their best and this current GS team and the Warriors have no one who could come close to defending Jordan, he would average over 40....I think the Warriors overall are as good and might win the series but I think the competitiveness of Jordan, Rodman and Pippen would most likely win out. So mental and defensive toughness versus the shooting clinic, your call?
I watched most of Jordan's career. Pippen was far and away the league's best wing defender--a disruptive force on the defensive end. Pippen was also a versatile offensive weapon. Horace Grant was a good big, and Rodman was an excellent defender and rebounder. Kukoc was a nice proto-stretch 4. Those teams were stacked.

The 90s Bulls and current Warriors would pit two great offenses against two great defenses. With zone defense allowed, I think the current Warriors torch the Bulls. Without zone defense, I think it's close. Modern defenses are only as good as their weakest link, and the Warriors are excellent. The 2nd 3-peat Bulls had 3 excellent defenders, a pretty good one, and then nothing. They wouldn't be able to play a center against the Warriors, and the Bulls' wings never had to defend a shot from 30 feet. Without zone, MJ, KD, and Steph would all be unstoppable.
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