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Old 04-07-2018, 12:39 AM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
3,318 posts, read 1,662,811 times
Reputation: 3586

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Quote:
Originally Posted by gladhands View Post
He couldn't win until the Lakers, Celtics and Pistons got old. There were no great teams during his 90s reign. Not one. None of those Knicks teams was better than Dwight Howard's Orlando Magic.

I believe there are four reasonable answers to the GOAT question: Wilt, Kareem, MJ and Lebron. No wrong answers there, but Six-Rings Dogmatism is silly. The rings don't tell the story.
"Dwight Howard's Orlando Magic" team is being used as a reference??? Dwight Howard would even be a starting center in Jordan's era, when all centers were at least 7 Ft (compared to Dwight Howard's 6'10). Hakeem, David Robinson, Dikembe Motumbo (sp?), Shaq, Ewing, Alonzo Mourning (who was 6'10 but could actually score unlike Howard) and were big agile bodies, unlike these stick figure players you see today. Real legit big, tough power forwards guarding the lane (Duncan, Barkley, Malone, Kevin Willis, Oakley, Kemp).

This era, there are hardly any 7 footers. All players are skinny 6'9-6'10 hybrid players. That's why Lebron can bully his way into the lane whenever he wants. No way he would be able to do that with the size and skill of the big men in Jordan's era.
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Old 04-07-2018, 06:21 AM
 
7,738 posts, read 4,581,276 times
Reputation: 8445
Quote:
Originally Posted by personone View Post
"Dwight Howard's Orlando Magic" team is being used as a reference??? Dwight Howard would even be a starting center in Jordan's era, when all centers were at least 7 Ft (compared to Dwight Howard's 6'10). Hakeem, David Robinson, Dikembe Motumbo (sp?), Shaq, Ewing, Alonzo Mourning (who was 6'10 but could actually score unlike Howard) and were big agile bodies, unlike these stick figure players you see today. Real legit big, tough power forwards guarding the lane (Duncan, Barkley, Malone, Kevin Willis, Oakley, Kemp).

This era, there are hardly any 7 footers. All players are skinny 6'9-6'10 hybrid players. That's why Lebron can bully his way into the lane whenever he wants. No way he would be able to do that with the size and skill of the big men in Jordan's era.
How would tiny Dwight Howard have fared against giants like this?
https://s-hdnux-com.cdn.ampproject.o...5/rawImage.jpg

https://www.aviationnepal.com/wp-con...ght-howard.png

On average, todayís bigs are much bigger and stronger than their 80ís and 90s peers. Charles Oakley is a GREAT example.

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/fBKZ...732/oakley.jpg

The goon you remember was 6í8, 225. Thatís five pounds heavier than James Harden and 25 pounds lighter than Blake Griffin. Heís not bullying anybody, in todayís league.
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Old 04-07-2018, 09:59 PM
 
3,800 posts, read 1,386,445 times
Reputation: 1603
Quote:
Originally Posted by gladhands View Post
He couldn't win until the Lakers, Celtics and Pistons got old. There were no great teams during his 90s reign. Not one. None of those Knicks teams was better than Dwight Howard's Orlando Magic.

I believe there are four reasonable answers to the GOAT question: Wilt, Kareem, MJ and Lebron. No wrong answers there, but Six-Rings Dogmatism is silly. The rings don't tell the story.

Jordan never left his team after failure to join other starts when they were losing in the 80's.
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Old 04-07-2018, 11:41 PM
 
52,015 posts, read 41,851,918 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gladhands View Post
Grant was significantly more efficient and a better defender.

https://www.basketball-reference.com...layers&y2=1992

The only advanced metric where Willis comes close to Grant is PER, and that's because of his much higher usage rate. We're talking a differential rating (Ortg minus Drtg) of 30 points to Willis' 6 points... a boxscore +/- of 7.3, compared to Willis' +1, and a 6.7 VORP to Willis's 2.2. Using basic stats that speak to efficiency and defense, Grant had 1.6 blocks and 1.2 steals to Willis' .7 and .9, and his fg% was 58% to Willis' 48%. Grant was better.
The PROFESSIONALS that watch hundreds of NBA games year after year, never put Grant on an all-NBA team. You and I can quibble all we want but those guys didn't deem him worthy at any point of his career despite making the all-defensive team.

There really isn't any getting around that.
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Old 04-07-2018, 11:42 PM
 
52,015 posts, read 41,851,918 times
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Originally Posted by moneymkt View Post
Jordan never left his team after failure to join other starts when they were losing in the 80's.
Your dealing with a guy that won't even acknowledge those Utah Jazz teams.
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Old 04-08-2018, 08:06 AM
 
7,738 posts, read 4,581,276 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moneymkt View Post
Jordan never left his team after failure to join other starts when they were losing in the 80's.
What does that have to do with the central thesis of this thread? Jordan dominated a weak era.
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Old 04-08-2018, 11:11 AM
 
3,800 posts, read 1,386,445 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gladhands View Post
What does that have to do with the central thesis of this thread? Jordan dominated a weak era.
You talk about Jordan 6 rings not being a big deal and failed to mention that Lebron had to LEAVE in order to get his 3 rings.
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Old 04-08-2018, 11:35 AM
 
7,738 posts, read 4,581,276 times
Reputation: 8445
Quote:
Originally Posted by moneymkt View Post
You talk about Jordan 6 rings not being a big deal and failed to mention that Lebron had to LEAVE in order to get his 3 rings.
This thread isnít about Lebron James.
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Old 04-08-2018, 03:01 PM
 
11,680 posts, read 7,057,593 times
Reputation: 6387
Quote:
Originally Posted by gladhands View Post
What does that have to do with the central thesis of this thread? Jordan dominated a weak era.
A weak era relative to how good teams with MJ were. The entire basketball world had 8 years to knock Jordan off but couldnít do it.
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Old 04-08-2018, 04:22 PM
 
52,015 posts, read 41,851,918 times
Reputation: 32454
Quote:
Originally Posted by gladhands View Post
What does that have to do with the central thesis of this thread? Jordan dominated a weak era.
....and you dodge posts that destroy your argument.
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