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Old 04-10-2018, 11:19 AM
 
11,679 posts, read 7,043,561 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gladhands View Post
This. People like to pretend that series didn't happen. It did, Jordan played out of his mind (31/6.5/3.7 with 2.5 steals and 1.8 blocks), and they still lost. The commonly accepted narrative is that the Bulls lost because Jordan was rusty. He actually played out of his mind...by most measures, better than in the second three-peat, but he'd lost Grant, and hadn't gained Rodman, and couldn't get out of the second round.
Odds are no team is winning a championship if their best player misses training camp, preseason and 65 regular season games. That’s just reality. If you think the Cavs are mediocre this season, imagine how bad they’d be if Lebron just joined the team a few weeks ago.
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Old 04-10-2018, 11:23 AM
 
7,703 posts, read 4,557,747 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiehaskell View Post
Odds are no team is winning a championship if their best player misses training camp, preseason and 65 regular season games. That’s just reality. If you think the Cavs are mediocre this season, imagine how bad they’d be if Lebron just joined the team a few weeks ago.
The Bulls won 55 without Jordan, the previous season. Cavs without Lebron are a lottery team.
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Old 04-10-2018, 12:28 PM
 
11,679 posts, read 7,043,561 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gladhands View Post
The Bulls won 55 without Jordan, the previous season. Cavs without Lebron are a lottery team.
Did you run a simulation of how many games prime 2016/2017 Kyrie (not 21 yr old Kyrie) and Love along with Korver/Thompson/Smith/Shumpert would win in the east? Let me guess...Kyrie and Love suck so they win 25 games.

And FYI - winning 55 or even 80 games doesn’t = championship...I.e. 73 win Warriors = failure.

My point stands - no team is winning a championship with their best player missing training camp, preseason and 65 regular season games. Just not happening.
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Old 04-10-2018, 01:02 PM
 
Location: Avondale, Chicago
14,411 posts, read 26,232,814 times
Reputation: 9448
Quote:
Originally Posted by gladhands View Post
This. People like to pretend that series didn't happen. It did, Jordan played out of his mind (31/6.5/3.7 with 2.5 steals and 1.8 blocks), and they still lost. The commonly accepted narrative is that the Bulls lost because Jordan was rusty. He actually played out of his mind...by most measures, better than in the second three-peat, but he'd lost Grant, and hadn't gained Rodman, and couldn't get out of the second round.
Worth noting too that Horace Grant was in his first season with the Magic in 1994-95. With Otis Thorpe leaving in the Drexler trade, PF was the only position matchup that favored Orlando in the Finals. Still wasn't enough.

Hakeem scored 31, 34, 31 and 35 points in the four Finals games vs. the Magic, with Shaq defending him. The Bulls would have needed MJ in the zone every night with Longley, Bill Wennington and/or Will Perdue flailing in the low post against the Dream Shake.
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Old 04-11-2018, 09:02 AM
 
51,893 posts, read 41,774,553 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post
I agree--that team needed better post defense. I also don't know that Rodman would have made a difference in that series.
Horace grant feasted that series as the Bulls had no one to guard him.

Love H. Grant as a player but Rodman would have shut him down completely and kept him off the boards as well.

For those that didn't actually watch that Bulls-Orlando series....or the other years he played, he was 20lbs heavier than *normal* due to baseball weight.

His numbers were generally good but his turnovers were up and he was definitely more winded due to the weight and was less effective defensively.

*shrug*

The entire purpose of this thread is to try to drag Jordan down from GOAT to try to promote Lebron.

Not surprised, we had to deal with Kobe fans trying to do the same thing about 6 years ago.
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Old 04-19-2018, 01:08 PM
 
Location: Atlanta area
163 posts, read 96,222 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gladhands View Post
Jordan made his first finals appearance and won his first championship at 28. LeBron, Durant and Curry won their first titles at 27 (Lebron, in his third Finals appearance). No one is arguing that Curry, Westbrook, Durant or Harden are GOAT, but they all reached the finals earlier than Jordan did.
Don't forget that Jordan had 3 years at UNC before the NBA.
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Old 04-19-2018, 01:39 PM
 
Location: Atlanta area
163 posts, read 96,222 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gladhands View Post
He never made all-nba because the basketball writers of the day overvalued scoring. No chance Draymond Green made All-NBA in the 90’s. Grant was somewhere between a prime Shawn Marion and Deandre Jordan. If he played today, he’d get a couple all-nba’s and a max deal.
Say what? Come on now.
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Old 04-21-2018, 04:20 AM
 
43 posts, read 17,994 times
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This is a better era than the 90s.
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Old 04-25-2018, 10:36 AM
 
3,603 posts, read 1,556,409 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gladhands View Post
He couldn't win until the Lakers, Celtics and Pistons got old. There were no great teams during his 90s reign. Not one. None of those Knicks teams was better than Dwight Howard's Orlando Magic.

I believe there are four reasonable answers to the GOAT question: Wilt, Kareem, MJ and Lebron. No wrong answers there, but Six-Rings Dogmatism is silly. The rings don't tell the story.
The logic could be other way around too - the others couldnt win because he was too good.

Generally this complaint is given for all champions - Federer, MJ, LBJ, Schumacher, Tendulkar etc ( google it) .
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Old 05-11-2018, 04:21 PM
 
1,224 posts, read 606,770 times
Reputation: 1282
Without reading all 8 pages of this thread:


Bulls would have won 8 titles in a row had Jordan not played baseball.
We can also end the LBJ Vs. MJ debate I'm fed up with.
LBJ lost to the Mavs with a stacked team in Miami.


While Jordan beat Malone and Stockton with the flu.

Last edited by Sunbiz1; 05-11-2018 at 05:13 PM..
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