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Old 05-11-2018, 04:24 PM
 
1,239 posts, read 612,457 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0ldT1m3r View Post
This is a better era than the 90s.

Jordan would be averaging 50/game in 2018.
No more hand or elbow checks insure more scoring.
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Old 05-12-2018, 07:22 AM
 
Location: Virginia Beach
4,214 posts, read 2,838,368 times
Reputation: 4507
Jordan won with stacked teams, but I don't think he played in a weak era. An argument can be made the 90s was stronger than the 10s; certainly that era had more parity...

Five East teams (Chi/NY/Ind/Det/Orl) and seven West teams (Hou/Utah/Port/SA/Sea/Lakers/Phx) played in the conference finals at least twice in the 90s. Compare to this era, the 10s, where just four East teams (Miami/Cleve/Bos/Ind) and just four West teams (GS/SA/OKC/Hou) have played in multiple conference finals. Sure, the league has always been top heavy. Absolutely true, but this era has been especially top-heavy and dominated by Lebron James and the Warriors...

Now, what I don't buy is that The East was infinitely better in the 90s than it has been in the 10s. I would say the 90s East is only marginally better. Lebron has qualified for the conference finals every year besides 2010; combined, his Heat/Cavs teams are what the 90s Bulls were to the conference. In a vacuum, the Celtics and Pacers of this era are pound for pound every bit as good as the Knicks, Pacers, Magic, Pistons of that era. They all had the same problem: runner-ups to Jordan/Lebron year after year...
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Old 05-12-2018, 09:58 AM
 
11,680 posts, read 7,057,593 times
Reputation: 6387
In the NBA finals Jordan outscored his 2nd option by:

+10.4
+15.0
+19.8
+11.6
+12.3
+17.8

The gap between Jordan and his 2nd option was HUGE and while scoring all those points his team was made better/still played within the triangle system.

During Lebron’s title runs, the gap between him and his 2nd option was:

+6.0
+5.7
+2.6

In other words, Lebron always had elite 2nd options that score the ball. Lebron’s 3rd option on offense were perennial all stars who were #1 options on other teams (Bosh coming off a 24/11 season and Love coming off a 26/13 all NBA 2nd team season).

Jordan had role players for 3rd options on offense.
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Old 05-14-2018, 12:42 AM
 
Location: Western Asia
3,187 posts, read 1,447,142 times
Reputation: 2524
Quote:
Originally Posted by gladhands View Post
He couldn't win until the Lakers, Celtics and Pistons got old. There were no great teams during his 90s reign. Not one. None of those Knicks teams was better than Dwight Howard's Orlando Magic.

I believe there are four reasonable answers to the GOAT question: Wilt, Kareem, MJ and Lebron. No wrong answers there, but Six-Rings Dogmatism is silly. The rings don't tell the story.
Of course that's part of the story but it doesn't take away from the fact Jordan was dominant the first year he came into the NBA when the NBA was at its peak (IMO).


I agree that those 4 guys could all be considered GOAT with a reasonable basis but I put Jordan and Jabbar a slight edge over Wilt and Lebron because of their dedication and determination. As far as best athletes, it was Wilt and then Lebron. Wilt would still be a freak in today's NBA with the combination of size, speed, strength and don't forget he also was an excellent passer.

Last edited by American Expat; 05-14-2018 at 01:22 AM..
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Old 05-14-2018, 10:26 AM
 
Location: Virginia Beach
4,214 posts, read 2,838,368 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
What's your favorite team from the 90's that never won a title, thanks to Jordan??


None of these teams were weak!!!
Teams that haven't won in the 10s because of Lebron:

--Big 3 Boston (win in '08, not in this decade)
--Chicago Bulls
--OKC (was hyped way back in '09 as being the next great team)
--Indiana
-- New Boston (so far)
--Toronto (three straight losses to Lebron, but probably would beat any other team in The East)
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Old 05-14-2018, 10:32 AM
 
4,423 posts, read 4,072,965 times
Reputation: 3569
Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
Teams that haven't won in the 10s because of Lebron:

--Big 3 Boston (win in '08, not in this decade)
--Chicago Bulls
--OKC (was hyped way back in '09 as being the next great team)
--Indiana
-- New Boston (so far)
--Toronto (three straight losses to Lebron, but probably would beat any other team in The East)
I agree, I think Lebron is better overall than Jordan and Jordan is better in clutch, but for the OP to say the 90's has weak teams was hilarious.
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Old 05-14-2018, 10:34 AM
 
Location: Virginia Beach
4,214 posts, read 2,838,368 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
I agree, I think Lebron is better overall than Jordan and Jordan is better in clutch, but for the OP to say the 90's has weak teams was hilarious.
Hey this is fair. And I also don't agree the 90s was full of weak teams!
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Old 05-14-2018, 10:35 AM
 
3,565 posts, read 1,877,900 times
Reputation: 2263
Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
Jordan won with stacked teams, but I don't think he played in a weak era. An argument can be made the 90s was stronger than the 10s; certainly that era had more parity...

Five East teams (Chi/NY/Ind/Det/Orl) and seven West teams (Hou/Utah/Port/SA/Sea/Lakers/Phx) played in the conference finals at least twice in the 90s. Compare to this era, the 10s, where just four East teams (Miami/Cleve/Bos/Ind) and just four West teams (GS/SA/OKC/Hou) have played in multiple conference finals. Sure, the league has always been top heavy. Absolutely true, but this era has been especially top-heavy and dominated by Lebron James and the Warriors...

Now, what I don't buy is that The East was infinitely better in the 90s than it has been in the 10s. I would say the 90s East is only marginally better. Lebron has qualified for the conference finals every year besides 2010; combined, his Heat/Cavs teams are what the 90s Bulls were to the conference. In a vacuum, the Celtics and Pacers of this era are pound for pound every bit as good as the Knicks, Pacers, Magic, Pistons of that era. They all had the same problem: runner-ups to Jordan/Lebron year after year...
There were so many different teams in the conference finals in the 90s because there weren't many elite teams--there were quite a few good teams, but just one or two elites. LBJ has been feasting on the East throughout the 2010s. The Warriors have only run through the West 3 times (thus far). The Spurs, Thunder, and Mavs have also represented the West in the Finals in the 2010s. Those 3 teams are no longer elite, but the Rockets are.

The East is not as good as the West. I think the Pels are Conference Finalists in the East. It may change: Boston, Milwaukee, and Philadelphia are young and talented. And there will be some changes this offseason . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
What's your favorite team from the 90's that never won a title, thanks to Jordan??

None of these teams were weak!!!
None of these teams were great, either.
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Old 05-14-2018, 11:11 AM
 
7,738 posts, read 4,581,276 times
Reputation: 8445
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
What's your favorite team from the 90's that never won a title, thanks to Jordan??


None of these teams were weak!!!
The Knicks were nowhere near a great team. The Blazers and Sonics werenít much better, and that Magic team beat Jordanís Bulls in the playoffs.
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Old 05-14-2018, 11:20 AM
 
11,680 posts, read 7,057,593 times
Reputation: 6387
Quote:
Originally Posted by gladhands View Post
The Knicks were nowhere near a great team. The Blazers and Sonics werenít much better, and that Magic team beat Jordanís Bulls in the playoffs.
Well geez...what defines a great team? Umm, usually winning a championship or two, but no teams in the 90s were doing that with MJ around (aside from the one year he basically missed the regular season and said surprise Iím coming back for the playoffs).
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