U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Sports > Basketball
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 04-14-2018, 05:10 AM
 
7,747 posts, read 4,606,872 times
Reputation: 8470

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
No offense to Steph Curry. I actually like todays open flow NBA much more than in the "jordan era".

But back then they'd have effing wrecked him with tight D and handchecking if not worse like basically just knocking him out with a stiff forearm to the face while driving the basket.

I'm not saying this is Good. Quite the opposite.

I'm just saying that it's g-damn impossible to compare today to the 90's when big brutal centers roamed the earth and teams had actual "enforcers" like in hockey.

The NBA is RADICALLY different today than it was 25 years ago and we have a lot of posters around that age that need to respect the game and learn it's history if they want to be taken seriously and not taken apart like a gazelle in a crocodile pit.
Everyone focuses on hand-checking, but less on illegal defense. With the old illegal defense rule, it was much more difficult to double-team a player, and smart teams could space the floor by putting non-shooting big men on the perimeter, where teams would be forced to guard them. The Bulls did this a lot.

As for Curry, nobody in the 90s was prepared to guard a shooter that far away from the basket. He would feast on perimeter defenders of yesteryear. Heís also never shied from physical contact and is much stronger than most guards from that era. I mean, really strong. Curry weighs about 190 and deadlifts 400 lbs. In the draft combine, he did ten reps of 185 on the bench. Heís much more physically mature now. If Reggie Miller excelled in the 90s, I donít see Steph Curry having a problem.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-14-2018, 07:23 AM
 
11,680 posts, read 7,076,431 times
Reputation: 6387
Quote:
Originally Posted by gladhands View Post
Everyone focuses on hand-checking, but less on illegal defense. With the old illegal defense rule, it was much more difficult to double-team a player, and smart teams could space the floor by putting non-shooting big men on the perimeter, where teams would be forced to guard them. The Bulls did this a lot.

As for Curry, nobody in the 90s was prepared to guard a shooter that far away from the basket. He would feast on perimeter defenders of yesteryear. Heís also never shied from physical contact and is much stronger than most guards from that era. I mean, really strong. Curry weighs about 190 and deadlifts 400 lbs. In the draft combine, he did ten reps of 185 on the bench. Heís much more physically mature now. If Reggie Miller excelled in the 90s, I donít see Steph Curry having a problem.
400 lb deadlift and 185 x 10 on the bench isnít all that huculean...even for the casual weight lifter without trainers/dietitians/7 days per week to work out.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-14-2018, 08:39 AM
 
7,747 posts, read 4,606,872 times
Reputation: 8470
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiehaskell View Post
400 lb deadlift and 185 x 10 on the bench isnít all that huculean...even for the casual weight lifter without trainers/dietitians/7 days per week to work out.
The bench isnít special, but thatís what he put up as a scrawny Davidson junior. Heís much stronger now. The dead lift IS impressive. Is the second heaviest on his team. Iím not saying Curry is going to go in there and body power forwards, but he is bigger and stronger than most 90s pg and a lot of 90s sg. I donít see Stephen Curry struggling in any league were Mark Price, Jeff Hornacek and Reggie Miller excelled .
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-14-2018, 10:59 AM
 
11,680 posts, read 7,076,431 times
Reputation: 6387
Quote:
Originally Posted by gladhands View Post
The bench isnít special, but thatís what he put up as a scrawny Davidson junior. Heís much stronger now. The dead lift IS impressive. Is the second heaviest on his team. Iím not saying Curry is going to go in there and body power forwards, but he is bigger and stronger than most 90s pg and a lot of 90s sg. I donít see Stephen Curry struggling in any league were Mark Price, Jeff Hornacek and Reggie Miller excelled .
This is one of the crazy things people do...they take a player with 2018 training/diet/supplements/science/play style and somehow think they can transport that player back 30 years and say ďsee heís dominatingĒ lol. If Curry was born in 1968 instead of 1988, he may just be some random player because the basketball world wasnít in a position to maximize his talent...just as players like Price, Miller and even Bird werenít maximized by todayís standards (~2 3pt attempts per game...come on).

But no, benching 185 isnít impressive for any college junior that lifts weights. Now if you told me Curry never lifted and busted out 185x10...then Iíd be like wow heís naturally gifted. 400lb deadlift is pretty good, but a lot of regular joes in their 20s could do the same with 3-4 months of training...that 400lb deadlift was also done using a trap bar so it wasnít even a conventional deadlift. I see nothing that indicates Curry is inherently gifted with strength. He probably came in as a ~165 pound rookie so they stuck him in the weight room to try and make him a little more durable and harder to push around.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-14-2018, 12:24 PM
 
7,747 posts, read 4,606,872 times
Reputation: 8470
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiehaskell View Post
This is one of the crazy things people do...they take a player with 2018 training/diet/supplements/science/play style and somehow think they can transport that player back 30 years and say ďsee heís dominatingĒ lol. If Curry was born in 1968 instead of 1988, he may just be some random player because the basketball world wasnít in a position to maximize his talent...just as players like Price, Miller and even Bird werenít maximized by todayís standards (~2 3pt attempts per game...come on).

But no, benching 185 isnít impressive for any college junior that lifts weights. Now if you told me Curry never lifted and busted out 185x10...then Iíd be like wow heís naturally gifted. 400lb deadlift is pretty good, but a lot of regular joes in their 20s could do the same with 3-4 months of training...that 400lb deadlift was also done using a trap bar so it wasnít even a conventional deadlift. I see nothing that indicates Curry is inherently gifted with strength. He probably came in as a ~165 pound rookie so they stuck him in the weight room to try and make him a little more durable and harder to push around.
Iím sorry you arenít impressed by Curryís 185x10, but if you were familiar with NBA combine numbers, youíd know thatís exceptional for a point guard. There are centers and power forwards who donít do that.

https://stats.nba.com/draft/combine-...onYear=2008-09

Check any of the draft classes on the site.

Wardell Stephen Curry is probably The greatest shooter the leak has ever seen, and pound for pound one of the stronger players in the era of the biggest strongest players. Itís silly to speculate that he wouldnít dominate in any era. Any top player from the modern league wouldíve been a top player in any previous era, if used correctly. There are only a handful of players from the 90s in earlier wouldíve benefited from playing in our era. Ralph Sampson comes to mind. Possibly Manute Bol. I wouldíve liked to seen what Bird and Mullen couldíve done if they shot more threes, but those guys already at the top of the game.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-14-2018, 12:58 PM
 
11,680 posts, read 7,076,431 times
Reputation: 6387
Quote:
Originally Posted by gladhands View Post
I’m sorry you aren’t impressed by Curry’s 185x10, but if you were familiar with NBA combine numbers, you’d know that’s exceptional for a point guard. There are centers and power forwards who don’t do that.

https://stats.nba.com/draft/combine-...onYear=2008-09

Check any of the draft classes on the site.

Wardell Stephen Curry is probably The greatest shooter the leak has ever seen, and pound for pound one of the stronger players in the era of the biggest strongest players. It’s silly to speculate that he wouldn’t dominate in any era. Any top player from the modern league would’ve been a top player in any previous era, if used correctly. There are only a handful of players from the 90s in earlier would’ve benefited from playing in our era. Ralph Sampson comes to mind. Possibly Manute Bol. I would’ve liked to seen what Bird and Mullen could’ve done if they shot more threes, but those guys already at the top of the game.
The fact that most NBAers never lift a weight doesn’t make lifting 185 impressive. Sorry. That’s something the average Joe (non elite athlete) does with 3 months of lifting. It’s not like Curry is throwing up impressive NFL combine numbers as a NBA player. Being a point guard isn’t a hinderance - NBA big men have crazy long arms which actually makes lifting more difficult. Earl Boykins for example benched 315lbs at about 5’5 135lbs.

I’m sorry, but you can’t simply look at a player born in one era and assume that if born in another era he would dominate. Life doesn’t work that way. That’s like saying that if Steph were 23 years old in 1958 he would be splashing shots and dribbling like 2018 Steph Curry while averaging 50 ppg. The game changes and allows for different skill sets to emerge as being valuable. In many eras Steph Curry simply doesn’t become the Steph Curry we know now. Now if we are talking MJ or Wilt - sure those guys are freaks that could find a way to be special in any era.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-14-2018, 10:45 PM
 
52,114 posts, read 41,937,212 times
Reputation: 32528
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiehaskell View Post
The fact that most NBAers never lift a weight doesnít make lifting 185 impressive. Sorry. Thatís something the average Joe (non elite athlete) does with 3 months of lifting. Itís not like Curry is throwing up impressive NFL combine numbers as a NBA player. Being a point guard isnít a hinderance - NBA big men have crazy long arms which actually makes lifting more difficult. Earl Boykins for example benched 315lbs at about 5í5 135lbs.

Iím sorry, but you canít simply look at a player born in one era and assume that if born in another era he would dominate. Life doesnít work that way. Thatís like saying that if Steph were 23 years old in 1958 he would be splashing shots and dribbling like 2018 Steph Curry while averaging 50 ppg. The game changes and allows for different skill sets to emerge as being valuable. In many eras Steph Curry simply doesnít become the Steph Curry we know now. Now if we are talking MJ or Wilt - sure those guys are freaks that could find a way to be special in any era.
Great factual post. I left you a rep you should read.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-16-2018, 10:40 AM
 
3,565 posts, read 1,883,399 times
Reputation: 2263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
No offense to Steph Curry. I actually like todays open flow NBA much more than in the "jordan era".

But back then they'd have effing wrecked him with tight D and handchecking if not worse like basically just knocking him out with a stiff forearm to the face while driving the basket.

I'm not saying this is Good. Quite the opposite.

I'm just saying that it's g-damn impossible to compare today to the 90's when big brutal centers roamed the earth and teams had actual "enforcers" like in hockey.

The NBA is RADICALLY different today than it was 25 years ago and we have a lot of posters around that age that need to respect the game and learn it's history if they want to be taken seriously and not taken apart like a gazelle in a crocodile pit.
MJ, Isaiah Thomas, Chris Mullin, Stockton, and Reggie Miller were Hall of Famers with slight builds in the 90s. Curry is the caliber of player to be a Hall of Famer in any era. He passes, dribbles, and finishes at an elite level with both hands, he shoots better than any player ever, and he has off-the-charts IQ. I don't care if it's 1955 or 2035, those are basketball skills that create offense.

I agree with you that pro basketball is incredibly different today than it was in the 90s. The greatest players would thrive in any era, because it is work ethic & IQ that separate them from their peers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gladhands View Post
Everyone focuses on hand-checking, but less on illegal defense. With the old illegal defense rule, it was much more difficult to double-team a player, and smart teams could space the floor by putting non-shooting big men on the perimeter, where teams would be forced to guard them. The Bulls did this a lot.

As for Curry, nobody in the 90s was prepared to guard a shooter that far away from the basket. He would feast on perimeter defenders of yesteryear. Heís also never shied from physical contact and is much stronger than most guards from that era. I mean, really strong. Curry weighs about 190 and deadlifts 400 lbs. In the draft combine, he did ten reps of 185 on the bench. Heís much more physically mature now. If Reggie Miller excelled in the 90s, I donít see Steph Curry having a problem.
Fully agreed. There is no elite scorer that can be defended one-on-one. That's as true today as it was in the 90s. It's much tougher to create one-on-one opportunities today than it was then. The gimmick offense you described was the Bulls' go-to when they needed a bucket. Give it to Mike on the wing, put everyone on the perimeter on the other side of the floor, and punish Mike's defender. Curry could play that way too, if the rules were the same.

Funny thing about watching Curry over the years: you get to see how opponents try to play him. For a point guard, Curry is an elite individual post defender. For years, teams have tried to work the ball to 2s & 3s that try to post him because of a size advantage (heck, LBJ has tried to work on him in the post) and he holds his ground and forces difficult shots/turnovers. I have also repeatedly watched him ignite when opponents try to play him physically and the refs swallow their whistles. No guard in the 90s had Curry's handle. No guard in the 90s had Curry's shot. The only guard in the 90s with Curry's vision and passing was Magic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gladhands View Post
Iím sorry you arenít impressed by Curryís 185x10, but if you were familiar with NBA combine numbers, youíd know thatís exceptional for a point guard. There are centers and power forwards who donít do that.

https://stats.nba.com/draft/combine-...onYear=2008-09

Check any of the draft classes on the site.

Wardell Stephen Curry is probably The greatest shooter the leak has ever seen, and pound for pound one of the stronger players in the era of the biggest strongest players. Itís silly to speculate that he wouldnít dominate in any era. Any top player from the modern league wouldíve been a top player in any previous era, if used correctly. There are only a handful of players from the 90s in earlier wouldíve benefited from playing in our era. Ralph Sampson comes to mind. Possibly Manute Bol. I wouldíve liked to seen what Bird and Mullen couldíve done if they shot more threes, but those guys already at the top of the game.
People who think the best players from any era wouldn't be good in another era just don't get basketball. LBJ would be one of the best players in any era. MJ would be one of the best players in any era. Magic & Kareem would be among the best players in any era. Pippen, Bird, Shaq, Worthy, and Klay would be top talents in any era. These guys can play, and they would have adapted to the rules in any age. Role players are much more likely to rise & fall by rules. Someone like Bill Wennington or Cedric Ceballos, or George Hill is much more dependent on having rules that emphasize their talents.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiehaskell View Post
The fact that most NBAers never lift a weight doesnít make lifting 185 impressive. Sorry. Thatís something the average Joe (non elite athlete) does with 3 months of lifting. Itís not like Curry is throwing up impressive NFL combine numbers as a NBA player. Being a point guard isnít a hinderance - NBA big men have crazy long arms which actually makes lifting more difficult. Earl Boykins for example benched 315lbs at about 5í5 135lbs.

Iím sorry, but you canít simply look at a player born in one era and assume that if born in another era he would dominate. Life doesnít work that way. Thatís like saying that if Steph were 23 years old in 1958 he would be splashing shots and dribbling like 2018 Steph Curry while averaging 50 ppg. The game changes and allows for different skill sets to emerge as being valuable. In many eras Steph Curry simply doesnít become the Steph Curry we know now. Now if we are talking MJ or Wilt - sure those guys are freaks that could find a way to be special in any era.
Steph Curry is a freakishly skilled basketball player. He would be a nightmare in any era for opponents. MJ was dominating basketball games when he was no longer freakishly athletic, because his skills and IQ made him a truly great player. LBJ no longer has the athletic advantage he once had, but he still dominates basketball games because his skills and IQ are off the charts. Bill Russell was never the freak athlete that Wilt was, but he won that matchup pretty much every time it mattered because he was a great basketball player.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-16-2018, 04:26 PM
 
11,680 posts, read 7,076,431 times
Reputation: 6387
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post



Steph Curry is a freakishly skilled basketball player. He would be a nightmare in any era for opponents. MJ was dominating basketball games when he was no longer freakishly athletic, because his skills and IQ made him a truly great player. LBJ no longer has the athletic advantage he once had, but he still dominates basketball games because his skills and IQ are off the charts. Bill Russell was never the freak athlete that Wilt was, but he won that matchup pretty much every time it mattered because he was a great basketball player.
The point is that certain eras nurture the skills that certain players may have. Curry was born into an era that maximizes his talent to the fullest extent possible. Curry may or may not be an NBA player if he grows up in say the 50s. Who knows. Totally different basketball culture from birth.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-16-2018, 05:31 PM
 
3,565 posts, read 1,883,399 times
Reputation: 2263
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiehaskell View Post
The point is that certain eras nurture the skills that certain players may have. Curry was born into an era that maximizes his talent to the fullest extent possible. Curry may or may not be an NBA player if he grows up in say the 50s. Who knows. Totally different basketball culture from birth.
Nonsense. If you can dribble, pass, shoot, and finish at an elite level with phenomenal IQ & work ethic, then there is a place on every basketball court for you.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Sports > Basketball
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top