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Old 05-29-2018, 10:41 AM
 
3,565 posts, read 1,875,735 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grizzly Addams View Post
The worst part is that there is almost zero strategy now. It's a bunch of hero ball, 3 pt shooting contests and isn't at all fun to watch.
There is far more strategy today than there was in the 90s.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Natural510 View Post
Both conference finals are going to a game seven. Everyone just assumed the Warriors would steamroll everything since October. If you don’t appreciate these playoffs, you never will.
Also calling the current era “hero ball” is a joke when the most successful teams of the recent era are the Spurs, Warriors and now Celtics, all known for their ball movement.
We just saw two of the best teams you are ever likely to watch meet each other in a playoff series. And we still get to see one of the best teams ever match up with one of the best players ever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bvb_09 View Post
Only one moving the ball in GS is curry, without him it is a 1-1 basketball of Durant/Thompson.
OP is right, the basketball level is really bad, it looks like street basketball. Ball goes to Harden/Paul/Lebron/Durant and the rest move aside...
Might be interesting to see who wins, but the it ain't what it was.
Curry is the creative genius who can turn the Warriors offense into something magical. The isolations we saw in the WCF were the result of a great defensive team making things tough on the Warriors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SonnyCrockett View Post
I don't know at what point the NBA became an 3-point shooting contest. One of the greatest teams in NBA history, the 1983 Philadelphia 76ers attempted TWO three-point shots in a four game sweep of the Lakers. And made neither btw. The standing around and dribbling at the top of the key on most possessions doesn't interest me ither. When they do pass, I still see little effort by defenses to rotate on obvious telegraphed cross court passes, where ultimately the jump shooter is still somehow open to shoot. At least in the regular season- and not that I blame them given the pointlessness of the regular season. And the close games turn out to be the most painful to watch with the endless timeouts, referees conversing, team delay tactics, and the overzealousness of the higher powers to allow replay at every turn. Unfortunately too, these drawn out endings are problematic in today's NCAA game as well. I tried tuning in randomly just to see how some former collegians I knew of well were making out in the pro ranks. But at the same time I can't get into it.

I don't have cable as of last year either, which limits the availability of what I watch anyways. The commercials are problematic and sports programming is just a microcosm of the larger issue and the dinosaur that will soon be the cable providers. Even attempting to view local news/weather in the morning while making breakfast, a basic local package still resulted in an obscene number of commercials every few minutes- and infomercials and horrid programming at all other hours.
Zone defense changed the NBA. It makes defenses much more potent against drivers and post players and demands shooting talent to stretch it out.

Great defenses rotate to cover shooters, and if you didn't see it in the WCF, you weren't watching. Just use Youtube TV's DVR to skip the timeouts and commercials while paying way less than cable. Basketball is better today than it has been in ages.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wutitiz View Post
I was thinking about the proliferation of 3 point shooting, and ran some calculations. To maximize points per possession, teams should try to equalize the effective field goal pct between 2 and 3 point shooting. Mathguy can maybe explain how this works, but I'm about 40 years removed from freshman calculus. But anyway if a team has (say) an efg% of 55% in 3 point shooting, and an efg% of 45% in 2 point shooting, they can obviously increase their scoring by shooting more 3's. One caveat to this is a team's prowess at getting to the free throw line, since that is rare when shooting 3's.

So I calculated this for several teams from last year's numbers. Most teams seem to still have a higher efg% in three pt. shooting. So for those who don't like the proliferation of 3's, it seems likely to get worse unless the league comes up with a change, such as moving out the line a little further.
Statistics can show you results, but they cannot produce winning strategy. There are a lot of assumptions baked into your reasoning from eFG%. They would not be borne out by simply shooting more 3s.
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Old 05-29-2018, 07:42 PM
 
929 posts, read 296,904 times
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Just got wind of the fact that Houston missed 27 consecutive three point shots?! Are you kidding me? Was there ever a point where perhaps you should strategize to manufacture points in some other fashion? Mickey Mouse ball reigns supreme on one of the sports biggest stages: a game 7 conference final.
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Old 05-30-2018, 08:29 AM
 
Location: Island of Misfit Toys
5,066 posts, read 2,185,934 times
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Wasn't it 28? lol Either way it's a joke. One reason I just cannot watch the nba atm. I love basketball but ugh. Hard to watch.
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Old 05-31-2018, 06:44 PM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,794 posts, read 14,276,109 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post


....
Statistics can show you results, but they cannot produce winning strategy. There are a lot of assumptions baked into your reasoning from eFG%. They would not be borne out by simply shooting more 3s.


I would have to disagree with your first sentence. The reason for the proliferation of 3 point shooting is that coaches looked at the numbers and realized that they were getting more points per possession from 3 pt shots than 2 point shots. So the statistics helped dictate a change in strategy.


Past results point the way to successful future strategy.
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Old 05-31-2018, 10:39 PM
 
Location: Elysium
6,584 posts, read 3,640,062 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wutitiz View Post
I would have to disagree with your first sentence. The reason for the proliferation of 3 point shooting is that coaches looked at the numbers and realized that they were getting more points per possession from 3 pt shots than 2 point shots. So the statistics helped dictate a change in strategy.


Past results point the way to successful future strategy.

And because the numbers show that it is better to take the 3 then a 2 point jump shot if a team misses and stops taking 3's then it is because the players lost their confidence or became cowards. Where as a culture we see champions always will go for "the shot" no matter how many attempts failed before.
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Old 06-01-2018, 07:44 AM
 
Location: South Padre Island, TX
2,452 posts, read 1,282,037 times
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Klay Thompson: "The rest of the NBA has to get better."
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Old 06-01-2018, 10:16 AM
 
4,414 posts, read 4,066,723 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texyn View Post

These insane Salaries make it hard for other teams to get better. Im in ATL and have watched the Hawks go from 60 win team with a future 3 yrs ago to a lotto team now since they couldnt afford to pay everyone max contracts.


This would be like Hakeem going to the Bulls and then saying the rest of the league needs to get better.


I think this summer and the next few years will even itself out, as this is probably the lat year the Cavs are going to the finals .
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Old 06-01-2018, 12:16 PM
 
3,565 posts, read 1,875,735 times
Reputation: 2263
Quote:
Originally Posted by wutitiz View Post
I would have to disagree with your first sentence. The reason for the proliferation of 3 point shooting is that coaches looked at the numbers and realized that they were getting more points per possession from 3 pt shots than 2 point shots. So the statistics helped dictate a change in strategy.

Past results point the way to successful future strategy.
But results do not measure the process to achieve them. For 98% of NBA shooters, a 3 is only a good shot if it is open and involves no dribbling. Your strategy cannot simply be "shoot more threes," it has to be "what do we need to do to produce more open spot up 3s for our good shooters?" The Rockets answered that question with the Harden/CP3 spread high ISO & the spread high P&R. They also have one of the 2% players in Harden who can use the off-the-dribble stepback 3 to produce a good 3 point look. Most teams don't have the personnel to do that. Take the T-Wolves, for example. They simply don't have the personnel to consistently create good 3s off of the spread high ISO & the spread high P&R. Those strategies are unavailable to the Wolves. What they do have is a center who is a threat to roll or pop and is the team's best 3 point shooter. Their strategy, dictated by personnel, is to use pick actions involving Towns. For opponents whose centers don't have the quickness to defend the perimeter, the Wolves let Towns fire. For opponents whose centers are quick enough to work the perimeter, Towns is more often going to roll to the hoop--where he can also produce really good shots.

It has always been obvious that 3 points are more than 2. It has always been obvious that you only need to shoot 33% on 3s to match the production of shooting 50% on 2s. The change in strategy has been a response to the NBA allowing zone defense, which demands shooting to stretch opposing defenses. Without zone, you're better off with a post or faceup ISO with a dominant scorer--dominant scorers in the NBA have long been unguardable in one-on-one situations; they still are today, but zone defense makes one-on-one situations almost non-existent, especially if you have at least one non-shooter on the floor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
These insane Salaries make it hard for other teams to get better. Im in ATL and have watched the Hawks go from 60 win team with a future 3 yrs ago to a lotto team now since they couldnt afford to pay everyone max contracts.

This would be like Hakeem going to the Bulls and then saying the rest of the league needs to get better.

I think this summer and the next few years will even itself out, as this is probably the lat year the Cavs are going to the finals .
The Hawks screwed up by letting all of their good players leave. Horford, Korver, Millsap, and Teague are all winners. ATL needs a better front office.

Klay was drafted by the Warriors. He is correct that other teams need to get better. The Rockets got better, and were inches from the Finals.

Wherever LBJ goes, that team will get a lot better and will be interesting. The team that gets Paul George will be interesting. The team that gets Kawhi will be interesting. Boston and Philadelphia will be interesting. The Wizards might be interesting. The Pelicans will be interesting. Houston will be a contender. The Bucks might figure it out. Teams can, in fact, get better. Stupid moves won't help, though.
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Old 06-01-2018, 12:28 PM
 
8,083 posts, read 5,295,646 times
Reputation: 9241
LOL @ the fashion show of basketball.

LeBron James wears Thom Browne shorts suit to Game 1 of NBA Finals, Cavaliers wear cropped trousers | Daily Mail Online
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Old 06-03-2018, 09:22 PM
 
1,426 posts, read 2,541,394 times
Reputation: 2027
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texyn View Post
Teams can't get better when their good players leave to go form super teams.
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