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Old 06-15-2018, 01:15 PM
 
Location: Virginia Beach
4,216 posts, read 2,850,740 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post
'16 was one of the best seasons in NBA history. This list has him at 32 right now, arguing that he has a top 5 all-time peak: The Backpicks GOAT: The 40 Best Careers in NBA History | Back Picks
That was an excellent read and I'm about to study it deeper. I am inclined to place Curry in the Top 25 as is, but I can see the argument to keep him out...

As an aside, I've always pushed back on these people who rant about Lebron being a bad defender (had this debate with a guy at work on Monday). He has obviously regressed with age but in his prime he was elite and prone to stretches of defensive dominance. People who argue otherwise just give themselves away as having not paid attention to his defensive ability in his past. And even 15 years in, he is still a smart defender and can make some very timely and critical plays....the write-up on Lebron does a great job at debunking the myth that he's a bad defender, or always has been one...
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Old 06-15-2018, 05:07 PM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,794 posts, read 14,303,352 times
Reputation: 7950
Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock
50s/60s Celtics (1956-57 to 1968-69) dominated the weakest era in NBA history but was also arguably the most stacked team ever: Cousy, Sharman, Russell, Heinsohn, Havlicek, Jones. They won 11 chips in 13 seasons, a feat that will never be rivaled, and were 11-1 in Finals in their era. They were less dynastic in the playoffs, though, which is a huge knock for me...

Recall this came up in the Bill Russell thread. I don't dispute that the Russell-era Celtics were stacked, but I don't know about 'most stacked.'


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Walker
the [Russell-era] Celtics never had any individual member whose isolated performance ranked among the best in history. No Celtics player led the NBA in scoring during its string of titles. In seven of its eleven championship seasons, it didn't place a single scorer in the top ten.

It's interesting to me to note that the 80's Celtics were 'only' 3-1 in the finals, same as currently for GSW. Now that was a stacked team with Bird, McHale and Parish in the frontcourt. All were great NBA scorers. IMO McHale would have been ranked as one of the great post scorers ever had he not played in Bird's shadow. They also had Bill Walton for a while, which made for a great interior defense, important at the time. But the 80's Celtics had great competition in the Lakers. Some of the other dynasties did not have to deal with an equally great rival, which I think should not be counted against the Celtics.

Also note the 80's Celtics era should really begin in 1979, Bird's rookie year. Bird was overall 3-2 in finals appearances.
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Old 06-15-2018, 05:11 PM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,794 posts, read 14,303,352 times
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The book I quoted above used analytics to identify 16 'tier 1' sports dynasties from all different sports, from basketball to soccer to field hockey to Australian rugby.


The only two NBA teams to make the list of 16 were the Russell-era Celtics and the Duncan-era Spurs. Jordan's Bulls did not make the list due to a lack of longevity.
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Old 06-15-2018, 05:17 PM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,794 posts, read 14,303,352 times
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About GSW, Curry is 30, Durant 29, and Thompson and Green are 28. If they manage to stay together, it's not a stretch to think they could win 3-5 more titles. Much in their favor is that they will be able to re-tool their bench with guys hoping to pick up a ring.
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Old 06-16-2018, 01:14 AM
 
Location: Virginia Beach
4,216 posts, read 2,850,740 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wutitiz View Post
Recall this came up in the Bill Russell thread. I don't dispute that the Russell-era Celtics were stacked, but I don't know about 'most stacked.'





It's interesting to me to note that the 80's Celtics were 'only' 3-1 in the finals, same as currently for GSW. Now that was a stacked team with Bird, McHale and Parish in the frontcourt. All were great NBA scorers. IMO McHale would have been ranked as one of the great post scorers ever had he not played in Bird's shadow. They also had Bill Walton for a while, which made for a great interior defense, important at the time. But the 80's Celtics had great competition in the Lakers. Some of the other dynasties did not have to deal with an equally great rival, which I think should not be counted against the Celtics.

Also note the 80's Celtics era should really begin in 1979, Bird's rookie year. Bird was overall 3-2 in finals appearances.
A dynasty, at least in my eyes, qualifies from when you first win a championship, to your last championship, basically your championship wins window...

If we extend past wins, there are gonna be a lot of almost-dynasties being called real dynasties, including the 2010s Heat...
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Old 06-16-2018, 03:00 PM
 
52,095 posts, read 41,911,642 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
This is more than a fair counter. I would only argue Curry as Top 25 because the style of play in the NBA has morphed around his game, and that 2016 season was truly legendary, probably one of the best individual years ever. But you make a great assessment here---it took 5 years for Curry to become an elite talent, and when we talk All-Timers and have to split hairs, this is not in his favor. Most of the other All-Timers entered The League setting it on fire as a rookie (Magic, Jordan, Lebron) or were clearly elite by Year 2 or 3. Curry's prime is not gonna be anywhere near as long as some of these guys and peak-for-peak, arguments can be made that other guys were better at their peaks than Curry (though again, his peak in '16 holds up well)...

He's had a slight decline since the '16 year. Not a steep one, but noticeable and a decline nonetheless...
Excellent post.

We'd have to FIRST agree upon what gets you in the top 25.

If you want to talk "peak" then it's a whole different ball-game.

However, I have to say that Curry doesn't have a single Finals MVP.

When talking peak years you have to start considering guys that may not even make the HOF and never saw a championship game despite their own best efforts.

No knock on Curry, we're really splitting hairs here when we're quibbling about if he's top 25 or top 50 or even top 75.
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Old 06-16-2018, 03:06 PM
 
52,095 posts, read 41,911,642 times
Reputation: 32514
Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
That was an excellent read and I'm about to study it deeper. I am inclined to place Curry in the Top 25 as is, but I can see the argument to keep him out...

As an aside, I've always pushed back on these people who rant about Lebron being a bad defender (had this debate with a guy at work on Monday). He has obviously regressed with age but in his prime he was elite and prone to stretches of defensive dominance. People who argue otherwise just give themselves away as having not paid attention to his defensive ability in his past. And even 15 years in, he is still a smart defender and can make some very timely and critical plays....the write-up on Lebron does a great job at debunking the myth that he's a bad defender, or always has been one...
Lebron has 6 x all-defensive team selections....not sure how someone that is *bad* on defense earns 6 of those awards lmafao.

He's gotten older and can't go as hard both ways anymore but wow....your co-worker is a moron.

Ask your co-worker (innocently) if Lebron ever got named to the all defensive team....sell it like you really don't know. Then if he says no, respond...I think he made at least one or more....then see if you can get the moron to bet lunch that he had at least a "half dozen". Don't say 6 or it will tip him off, use a general phrase like half dozen.

Bon Appetit!
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