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Old 11-25-2018, 07:56 AM
 
5,450 posts, read 1,552,961 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
You do know .364 is just barely a shade over average three point shooting? I wouldn't be lauding 36% three point shooting...

I'm gonna be on your case about Simmons all year. The man can't shoot and crumbles in big spots. We overrated his "rookie" season. There is no reason Philly shouldnt advance to the ECF this year. I will continue to assert that until he fills out his offensive game, this team ain't winning anything...
Simmons 2018 playoffs:
16.3 points
9.4 rebounds
7.7 assists
1.7 steals
0.8 blocks
.488 field
.707 free-throws

And even his Boston series was excellent-
14.4 points
8.2 rebounds
6.4 assists
1.0 steals
1.0 blocks
.475 field
.696 free-throws

Of course, Philly have no chance of winning if they expect Simmons to be a perimeter shooter, but they clearly don't expect that.
The problem is his teammates only hit .309 downtown in the Boston series (.363 in the Heat series), despite Simmons delivering them plenty of open looks.
Simmons did his job, still averaged 6.4 assists despite his teammates missing open shot after open shot.
If Philly shot .363 in the Boston series, they'd have probably won, because Boston won Game 2 by 5 points, Game 3 by 3 points, and Game 5 by 2 points.
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Old 11-25-2018, 12:53 PM
 
Location: Virginia Beach
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Luka is going to be an All-Timer. I think Carlisle is still trying to give Smith a shot, but so far he's not looking anywhere near an All-NBA level talent...
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Old 11-25-2018, 06:41 PM
 
Location: Gulf Coast Texas
28,529 posts, read 15,474,736 times
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Jimmy Butler buzzer beater #2 against the Nets after being down 20.
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Old 11-26-2018, 05:26 AM
 
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And the pattern continues, Philly's offense has been outstanding, but not their defense.
I doubt its an effort problem, more a strategy/coaching problem.
Philly 127 Brooklyn 125
Philly 112 Cleveland 121
Philly 121 New Orleans 120
Philly 119 Phoenix 114
Philly 122 Charlotte 119
Simmons last 5 games: 19.8 points, 8.8 assists, 7.8 rebounds, 1.6 steals, 1.0 blocks, .580 field
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Old 11-26-2018, 10:25 AM
 
3,565 posts, read 1,878,325 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
I'm laughing hysterically, why is everyone so surprised by the Celtics? I called this, man...

Magalot, come in here with your Simmons stats when the Sixers lose lmao...

This is why it takes more than one year to evaluate a player. Halfway thru last season, I realized Embiid was the best player on that team, by a wide margin. That margin keeps growing. This Simmons kid is not the second coming of Lebron. His complete unwillingness to develop a j is arrogant and will continue to hamstring his team versus elite competition...

This is a side note for all of my city-data basketball heads. I want everyone to notice, they have begun doing to Lebron what they did to Jordan 20-odd years ago--->>>every year, there's a "next" Lebron. This year its Zion, last year was Simmons. This is a true measure of Lebron's GOATness, he's been the best baller for an entire generation of guys who not only never saw Jordan play, these guys weren't even alive for the Jordan Bulls. As has been said for years, Lebron is Jordan of this era, he just didn't play for the Bulls (The Dubs)...

Also, I want people to take note of something else. This Lakers team hasn't made the playoffs in six seasons, or the WCF in nine. Watch what's going on in LA and the rest of the West. I'm not expecting it to happen, I'd have to see a lot more to buy into it, but if LeBron keeps his streak of Finals appearances going with a squad that hasn't even made the playoffs in a half-decade, it's another feather in the GOAT argument. The Lakers are starting to feel it out...

I definitely think there will be more adversity this year, but look how LeBron is playing right now. Someone pointed out this very thing to me the other day, I'll paraphrase:

"We spent a lot of time worrying about LeBron going to the West and if he had enough help and how he couldn't win it, how that might affect his legacy. Nobody ever stopped to mention that as deep as the West is, no one besides this iteration of the Warriors and Gregg Popovich has ever had to face Playoff LeBron James. The West is deep and talented but besides Golden State and possibly Pop, what team do you think could weather Playoff LeBron? Even Golden State and Pop have lost to Playoff LeBron, and been overwhelmed individually by him, when prevailing with the winning team"...

LeBron is putting the conference on notice. We all by now acknowledge LeBron is one of the most clutch and legendary postseason ballers we have ever seen. He's beaten good playoff teams with lesser skill around him than LA has, and we have 13 years or so of evidence to recount his playoff history. All I'm saying, look at the West. Only one team and two coaches have experienced Playoff LeBron. Which West team/coach beyond those two do you really believe in after LeBron has had an entire year to gel with his roster, and turns on the playoff jets?

Your GOAT is 1-3 head-to-head against Steph Curry in the Finals. Steph Curry was drafted by the only franchise as bad as Cleveland, and he turned it into a dynasty and built the greatest team in NBA history. He broke NBA defense and no one has figured out how to put it back together. Curry's Warriors have the air of unstoppability that Jordan's Bulls exuded. LBJ's Cavs, Heat, and Lakers never had that.


The KG Celtics and Dwight Magic also overcame playoff LeBron. LBJ is a great player. But in '18-19, he is chasing Curry--not the other way around.



Quote:
Originally Posted by MAGAalot View Post
Yep, Curry is the most valuable player in Golden State without any shred of doubt.
It'll be ironic if Durant wins a 3rd consecutive Finals MVP, although I guess it will support the notion that Finals MVPs aren't as important as regular season MVPs.
But it looked very hollow when Barkley and Malone won MVPs, because Jordan was so obviously better and proved it in the NBA Finals.
I guess each case is different, and Durant's Finals MVPs are losing value lately.....because its obvious Durant can't win a ring without Curry, whereas Curry can win a ring without Durant.
People say "Durant put them over the top", but they probably wouldn't be saying that if Green wasn't suspended in the 2016 NBA Finals....

Curry is the best player in the league, and 2018 is the year fans wake up to it. The greatest of his generation is chasing Magic for GOAT PG & the NBA's highest pantheon.
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Old 11-26-2018, 10:34 AM
 
4,492 posts, read 3,160,905 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subPrimeTime View Post
Check that. Houston goes down to the Cavs (considered the worst team in the league about a week ago) and the Celtics lose to the Mavs (granted, no G Hayward tonight). Both the Rockets and Celtics drop to .500 on the season. Surprising.
I was at this game. It was never a contest from start to finish. This current iteration of Celtics, looks nothing like the team we grew to love and root for last season. However, Dallas is a bit underrated this season. I think they could sneak into the playoffs with the Jazz struggling as they are. Dallas was without DSJ and Harrison Barnes had a very quiet 20 points. This Mavs team is very fun to watch.


I can't say the same for Boston. Haven't been a fun team to watch at all. You can tell there's frustration within the team as well. Morris and Smart were riled up on Saturday night.
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Old 11-26-2018, 05:50 PM
 
Location: Virginia Beach
4,214 posts, read 2,840,021 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post
Your GOAT is 1-3 head-to-head against Steph Curry in the Finals. Steph Curry was drafted by the only franchise as bad as Cleveland, and he turned it into a dynasty and built the greatest team in NBA history. He broke NBA defense and no one has figured out how to put it back together. Curry's Warriors have the air of unstoppability that Jordan's Bulls exuded. LBJ's Cavs, Heat, and Lakers never had that.


The KG Celtics and Dwight Magic also overcame playoff LeBron. LBJ is a great player. But in '18-19, he is chasing Curry--not the other way around.






Curry is the best player in the league, and 2018 is the year fans wake up to it. The greatest of his generation is chasing Magic for GOAT PG & the NBA's highest pantheon.
Hahahahaha lmao don't even try it...

You're the first person who says LeBron is 1-3 versus Curry. Literally nobody views it through that prism because a)Curry had the better team each time, and most importantly b)LeBron has outplayed Curry in the Finals. I'll save you the embarrassment because you watched the games and can look up the reviews yourself, but where has Curry's iconic games been in this series? He's had about three Curry-like games in a possible 22 games. LeBron has destroyed the Warriors over and over again, year after year, playing on the lesser team, and his resume versus Golden State is littered with iconic and legendary performances. Pick any year you want lololol, 2015, 2016, 2017, or 2018?

There is no such thing as "playoff Steph" because it doesn't exist. Steph's track record is that he becomes a lesser, albeit still great, but a lesser version of himself, in the postseason. That's the complete opposite anybody would say about LeBron, and you can't deny either count. There are already other factors that seperate LeBron from Steph, this is one of the most glaring...

Steph really has no iconic postseason moments. He's comparable to Jordan in his impact on his team, and his team's dominance. He's had more dominant teams than LeBron, but he's played with a better roster, a better front office, and a better coaching than LeBron. Let's see you wiggle out of this one--Steph broke through in his last year with Mark Jackson and became an elite player, but it took until Year 5 to break out, and it took until a different coach to turn him into a perennial MVP contender. LeBron has been a perennial MVP contender his entire career and done more with less, whereas Steph did pretty much nothing when he had less...

Oh but Steph has done well when he's had a loaded franchise lol. He's also repeatedly been outplayed by teammates year over year in the playoffs...

I like Steph. He did break NBA defense. I didn't see Magic but I'll say in my 20 years of watching the NBA, he's the best point I've seen. LeBron and Steph have the same ring count, and LeBron is the more accomplished player on every level by a wide margin. It's hilarious that you think he's chasing Steph. Steph can finish with more rings than LeBron (doubtful, I said the Warriors aren't winning another one and I'm sticking to it, prove me wrong) and still would never be considered a greater player, so just stop it. His legacy is as the deadliest shooter ever who was the Central piece of possibly the most dominant dynasty ever, but his legacy isn't as the best player of his era...

The Dwight Magic were a two-year flash in the pan who beat LeBron one time. They aren't important to LeBron's history...the KG Celtics beat LeBron the first two years they played him (2008, 2010), then were summarily embarrassed the final two series they played him (2011, 2012), and LeBron yet again killed another dynasty/mini-dynasty, leading to the breakup of that roster. By the way, Boston is 0-5 versus LeBron since that 2010 win. They really have nothing to hang their hats on...

I love how you try to diminish LeBron's greatness, I love it more how you inflate Steph's. Normally you get revved up after the break but keep the jokes coming!
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Old 11-26-2018, 05:56 PM
 
Location: Virginia Beach
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CB, just mark my words. Unless LeBron falls off physically, which is entirely in the realm of possibility for a guy in Year 16, it absolutely could happen, but unless it does, I am really close to giving only the Warriors and Popovich (assuming his team even gets in) a real chance versus LeBron. Nobody else in the West bracket has stared down Playoff LeBron and I have no reason to trust anyone else until they prove they are up to the task...
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Old 11-27-2018, 11:43 AM
 
3,565 posts, read 1,878,325 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
Hahahahaha lmao don't even try it...

You're the first person who says LeBron is 1-3 versus Curry. Literally nobody views it through that prism because a)Curry had the better team each time, and most importantly b)LeBron has outplayed Curry in the Finals. I'll save you the embarrassment because you watched the games and can look up the reviews yourself, but where has Curry's iconic games been in this series? He's had about three Curry-like games in a possible 22 games. LeBron has destroyed the Warriors over and over again, year after year, playing on the lesser team, and his resume versus Golden State is littered with iconic and legendary performances. Pick any year you want lololol, 2015, 2016, 2017, or 2018?

Losses are not legendary.


Take yourself back in time to LBJ's return to the Cavs. People thought that Kyrie was a budding superstar, and then the trade for Mr. 25 & 12 Love seemed to give the Cavs a big 3 that would march all over the NBA.



A few of the takes:

Kevin Love traded from Minnesota Timberwolves to Cleveland Cavaliers
https://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/08/s...evin-love.html
https://www.si.com/nba/2014/08/23/ke...andrew-wiggins
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/g...s-blockbuster/


Hindsight makes you think the Cavs were always underdogs against Steph's Warriors. The best basketball sportswriter took a stab with the Warriors just a touch too early in 2014--Zach Lowe's Why not the Warriors?

Why Not the Warriors?

Foresight in 2013-14 might have caused you to think that Steph is a revolutionary offensive talent and Mark Jackson is shackling him by over-utilizing Jarrett Jack.


Hindsight in 2018 would have you explaining how the same pieces in '14-15 were an unstoppable juggernaut when they were young upstarts in '13-14.


Legendary playoff performances? Finals performances?


Steph put up 27.5/6.8/6.0 last year, sweeping LeBron's Cavs. Before getting to the Cavs, Curry put up legendary performances in two straight elimination games against the Rockets, including an iconic run from about 6 min. left in Game 7, middle of 3Q through the middle of the 4th to take the lead and pad it.


In '17, Steph put up 26.8/9.8/8 in a Gentleman's Sweep of LBJ's best Cavs team.


And in '15, Steph put up 26/6.3/5.2 in a 6-game win over LBJ's Cavs.


These Finals performances were littered with Steph breaking down the Cavs' defense and playing basketball the way he does--with leadership, effort, and joy.



Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
There is no such thing as "playoff Steph" because it doesn't exist. Steph's track record is that he becomes a lesser, albeit still great, but a lesser version of himself, in the postseason. That's the complete opposite anybody would say about LeBron, and you can't deny either count. There are already other factors that seperate LeBron from Steph, this is one of the most glaring...

You should probably revisit Steph's playoff performances. The numbers disagree with you, and the actual games disagree with you even more. It is obvious, watching the Warriors, that the team is a fluid offensive machine when he is on the floor, and it is not when he is not.



NBA players have put up playoff numbers of 25/5/5 92 times in NBA historty. Steph has 4 of those. 3 of his are among the 15 most efficient shooting performances in that collection of playoffs, judging efficiency by TS%. 4 of his are in the top 15 judging by eFG%.



Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
Steph really has no iconic postseason moments. He's comparable to Jordan in his impact on his team, and his team's dominance. He's had more dominant teams than LeBron, but he's played with a better roster, a better front office, and a better coaching than LeBron. Let's see you wiggle out of this one--Steph broke through in his last year with Mark Jackson and became an elite player, but it took until Year 5 to break out, and it took until a different coach to turn him into a perennial MVP contender. LeBron has been a perennial MVP contender his entire career and done more with less, whereas Steph did pretty much nothing when he had less...

LBJ has had Wade, Bosh, Irving, and Love with him--All-NBA players, and Wade was an MVP candidate.


Steph was an elite talent under Don Nelson his rookie year. Starting in January of 2010, all of the elite talents--passing, shooting, dribbling, IQ, leadership--were on display.



https://www.goldenstateofmind.com/20...e-of-the-year\
An insightful basketball blogger saw what Don Nelson saw, and what has come to be with Steve Kerr:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Feltbot
How did Stephen Curry earn his teammates respect? By being an extraordinary player and point guard, certainly. But also by being unselfish. By looking for the pass before looking for the shot. By working on his defense. By being a workhorse. By being a leader.


Real greatness is foreshadowed in Curry's rookie stats. And not just in his stats, but in the opinion of his head coach, and many other coaches and commentators around the league, who consider him on a par with Steve Nash in terms of basketball IQ. Brandon Jennings has me wondering if he really is a legitimate NBA starter. Tyreke Evans has me wondering whether he can ever be the kind of player who makes his teammates better, who leads his team into the playoffs, who becomes worthy of an all-star selection.
I don't wonder about those things with Stephen Curry. I have no doubt that he will lead his team into the playoffs many times, and earn many all-star selections.
What Stephen Curry has me wondering is whether I'm watching a future NBA Hall of Famer.


A terrible franchise hired two terrible coaches who shackled his talent. Steve Kerr and his staff unleashed Steph.



Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
Oh but Steph has done well when he's had a loaded franchise lol. He's also repeatedly been outplayed by teammates year over year in the playoffs...

Steph makes the whole thing go. He makes all of his teammates better, and ridiculously so:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...hen-curry-mvp/
https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comment..._teammates_ts/
Star Player Effects on Teammate Efficiency | Back Picks


Just watch him on the court. See how he produces for his teammates whether or not he has the ball. He is a basketball visionary.



Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
I like Steph. He did break NBA defense. I didn't see Magic but I'll say in my 20 years of watching the NBA, he's the best point I've seen. LeBron and Steph have the same ring count, and LeBron is the more accomplished player on every level by a wide margin. It's hilarious that you think he's chasing Steph. Steph can finish with more rings than LeBron (doubtful, I said the Warriors aren't winning another one and I'm sticking to it, prove me wrong) and still would never be considered a greater player, so just stop it. His legacy is as the deadliest shooter ever who was the Central piece of possibly the most dominant dynasty ever, but his legacy isn't as the best player of his era...

LBJ has a legendary career. He is, however, on year 16 to Steph's year 10. In the last 4 years, Steph has beat LBJ 3 out of four times--LBJ's win being a basketball miracle. That's why I say LBJ is chasing Steph now. Steph built a dynasty out of a pile of junk. His play is unprecedented and transforms basic strategy on the basketball court. He is our Shaq.


I watched Magic play, and I'll take peak Steph over late Magic. But Magic won 5 titles and 3 MVPs while building the greatest offense the NBA had yet seen. Steph still has hardware to chase while he has built the greatest offense in NBA history.



Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
The Dwight Magic were a two-year flash in the pan who beat LeBron one time. They aren't important to LeBron's history...the KG Celtics beat LeBron the first two years they played him (2008, 2010), then were summarily embarrassed the final two series they played him (2011, 2012), and LeBron yet again killed another dynasty/mini-dynasty, leading to the breakup of that roster. By the way, Boston is 0-5 versus LeBron since that 2010 win. They really have nothing to hang their hats on...

The Dwight Magic didn't last long, but they beat LBJ in the playoffs. The KG Celtics aged out of competition, but they beat LBJ in the playoffs. The Pistons beat LBJ in the playoffs. The Spurs beat LBJ in the Finals twice. The Mavs beat LBJ in the Finals. And now the Warriors have been beating LBJ in the Finals. He has won 3 titles, which is amazing. Curry, too, has lost in the playoffs. He lost to the Spurs. He lost to the Clippers. And he lost to the Cavs.



3 titles in 15 seasons is an incredible career. Steph has 3 titles in 9 seasons.



Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
I love how you try to diminish LeBron's greatness, I love it more how you inflate Steph's. Normally you get revved up after the break but keep the jokes coming!

LBJ is a great player--a basketball legend who belongs in the league's highest pantheon. But we are in the Steph Curry era, and we have been since '2014-15.


What should be obvious in this young season is that the Warriors with a healthy Steph are easily the best in the West, while without Steph the Warriors are just fighting for a playoff spot--like the Lakers are.
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Old 11-27-2018, 11:50 AM
 
5,450 posts, read 1,552,961 times
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If I was starting a team with the goal of winning a championship ASAP, and I had to choose between prime LeBron and prime Curry, I'd definitely choose prime Curry.
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