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Old 11-27-2018, 12:02 PM
 
Location: Springfield, Ohio
12,201 posts, read 10,422,845 times
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A lot of people forget Lebron’s reputation as a choker before the ‘16 Finals, including his time in Miami. He has a high BBIQ and uses his physical attributes to the max (when motivated) but he does not possess the shooting skills or all-around offensive game of a Curry or Kobe Bryant.
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Old 11-27-2018, 12:36 PM
 
5,434 posts, read 1,547,253 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natural510 View Post
A lot of people forget Lebron’s reputation as a choker before the ‘16 Finals, including his time in Miami. He has a high BBIQ and uses his physical attributes to the max (when motivated) but he does not possess the shooting skills or all-around offensive game of a Curry or Kobe Bryant.
Also, LeBron seems to think passing to an open man for a game-winning-shot is better than LeBron going for a contested game-winning-shot.
And when I say 'contested' I don't mean a bad shot, I mean simply taking a shot over a defender (something LeBron has no problem doing normally).
I think LeBron is making an intellectual error when he does this with such regularity.
Does he really think his teammates are super-confident at taking game-winners? Open or not, are they really clutch enough to be entrusted?

I know Jordan passed to Kerr for a game-winner in the 1997 NBA Finals, but that was rare and was used as a surprise tactic (as everyone expected Jordan to take the shot).
And before anyone mentions it, Jordan did NOT pass to Paxson for the game-winner in the 1993 NBA Finals, actually Jordan dribbled the ball up court and passed to Pippen, then Pippen passed to Grant, and then Grant passed to Paxson.
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Old 11-27-2018, 02:55 PM
 
Location: Virginia Beach
4,212 posts, read 2,833,476 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post
Losses are not legendary.


Take yourself back in time to LBJ's return to the Cavs. People thought that Kyrie was a budding superstar, and then the trade for Mr. 25 & 12 Love seemed to give the Cavs a big 3 that would march all over the NBA.



A few of the takes:

Kevin Love traded from Minnesota Timberwolves to Cleveland Cavaliers
https://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/08/s...evin-love.html
https://www.si.com/nba/2014/08/23/ke...andrew-wiggins
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/g...s-blockbuster/


Hindsight makes you think the Cavs were always underdogs against Steph's Warriors. The best basketball sportswriter took a stab with the Warriors just a touch too early in 2014--Zach Lowe's Why not the Warriors?

Ľ Why Not the Warriors?

Foresight in 2013-14 might have caused you to think that Steph is a revolutionary offensive talent and Mark Jackson is shackling him by over-utilizing Jarrett Jack.


Hindsight in 2018 would have you explaining how the same pieces in '14-15 were an unstoppable juggernaut when they were young upstarts in '13-14.


Legendary playoff performances? Finals performances?


Steph put up 27.5/6.8/6.0 last year, sweeping LeBron's Cavs. Before getting to the Cavs, Curry put up legendary performances in two straight elimination games against the Rockets, including an iconic run from about 6 min. left in Game 7, middle of 3Q through the middle of the 4th to take the lead and pad it.


In '17, Steph put up 26.8/9.8/8 in a Gentleman's Sweep of LBJ's best Cavs team.


And in '15, Steph put up 26/6.3/5.2 in a 6-game win over LBJ's Cavs.


These Finals performances were littered with Steph breaking down the Cavs' defense and playing basketball the way he does--with leadership, effort, and joy.






You should probably revisit Steph's playoff performances. The numbers disagree with you, and the actual games disagree with you even more. It is obvious, watching the Warriors, that the team is a fluid offensive machine when he is on the floor, and it is not when he is not.



NBA players have put up playoff numbers of 25/5/5 92 times in NBA historty. Steph has 4 of those. 3 of his are among the 15 most efficient shooting performances in that collection of playoffs, judging efficiency by TS%. 4 of his are in the top 15 judging by eFG%.






LBJ has had Wade, Bosh, Irving, and Love with him--All-NBA players, and Wade was an MVP candidate.


Steph was an elite talent under Don Nelson his rookie year. Starting in January of 2010, all of the elite talents--passing, shooting, dribbling, IQ, leadership--were on display.



https://www.goldenstateofmind.com/20...e-of-the-year\
An insightful basketball blogger saw what Don Nelson saw, and what has come to be with Steve Kerr:






A terrible franchise hired two terrible coaches who shackled his talent. Steve Kerr and his staff unleashed Steph.






Steph makes the whole thing go. He makes all of his teammates better, and ridiculously so:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...hen-curry-mvp/
https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comment..._teammates_ts/
Star Player Effects on Teammate Efficiency | Back Picks


Just watch him on the court. See how he produces for his teammates whether or not he has the ball. He is a basketball visionary.






LBJ has a legendary career. He is, however, on year 16 to Steph's year 10. In the last 4 years, Steph has beat LBJ 3 out of four times--LBJ's win being a basketball miracle. That's why I say LBJ is chasing Steph now. Steph built a dynasty out of a pile of junk. His play is unprecedented and transforms basic strategy on the basketball court. He is our Shaq.


I watched Magic play, and I'll take peak Steph over late Magic. But Magic won 5 titles and 3 MVPs while building the greatest offense the NBA had yet seen. Steph still has hardware to chase while he has built the greatest offense in NBA history.






The Dwight Magic didn't last long, but they beat LBJ in the playoffs. The KG Celtics aged out of competition, but they beat LBJ in the playoffs. The Pistons beat LBJ in the playoffs. The Spurs beat LBJ in the Finals twice. The Mavs beat LBJ in the Finals. And now the Warriors have been beating LBJ in the Finals. He has won 3 titles, which is amazing. Curry, too, has lost in the playoffs. He lost to the Spurs. He lost to the Clippers. And he lost to the Cavs.



3 titles in 15 seasons is an incredible career. Steph has 3 titles in 9 seasons.






LBJ is a great player--a basketball legend who belongs in the league's highest pantheon. But we are in the Steph Curry era, and we have been since '2014-15.


What should be obvious in this young season is that the Warriors with a healthy Steph are easily the best in the West, while without Steph the Warriors are just fighting for a playoff spot--like the Lakers are.
Whatever you say, friend...

Just explain to me what happens to Steph in the playoffs? Why isn't he the same guy in the postseason and The Finals, better yet why isn't he better, than he is in the regular season?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MAGAalot View Post
If I was starting a team with the goal of winning a championship ASAP, and I had to choose between prime LeBron and prime Curry, I'd definitely choose prime Curry.
Of course you would...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Natural510 View Post
A lot of people forget Lebronís reputation as a choker before the Ď16 Finals, including his time in Miami. He has a high BBIQ and uses his physical attributes to the max (when motivated) but he does not possess the shooting skills or all-around offensive game of a Curry or Kobe Bryant.
LeBron's choke label left with his second title in Miami (2013). LeBron is also a significantly better all-around player than both Curry and Kobe, and he's a better shooter than Kobe ever was. He's also a better clutch player than both. Kobe was a better defender and Steph is a better shooter, and both Kobe and Steph are more explosive scorers than LeBron...

Last edited by murksiderock; 11-27-2018 at 03:37 PM..
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Old 11-27-2018, 08:02 PM
 
17,301 posts, read 10,212,749 times
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And Lonzo goes out of the game with a tweaked left ankle.

Christ, that guy just cannot seem to catch a break.
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Old 11-29-2018, 12:19 PM
Status: "Smacking fundies." (set 6 days ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
25,829 posts, read 13,426,503 times
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Looks like no Curry or Draymond Green tonight in TO. Bummer. But they meet again in a couple of weeks.
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Old 11-30-2018, 12:49 PM
 
1,742 posts, read 5,001,884 times
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Some notes
Boston did take Miami to 7 games in 2011.
The Heat had 3 other all star caliber players besides Lebron in 2013 with the requirement of one making a series saving shot in game 6.
Kobe didn’t get a bulk of his shots with allowed charging, traveling and also with less defenders on him.
The Warriors will likely win the next 2-3 years if not more.
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Old 11-30-2018, 06:14 PM
 
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Sixers lead Wizards 68-46 at halftime.
Simmons 11 points, 7 rebounds, 7 assists, 4-4 field, 3-3 free.
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Old 11-30-2018, 11:54 PM
 
Location: Virginia Beach
4,212 posts, read 2,833,476 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Continental View Post
Some notes
Boston did take Miami to 7 games in 2011.
The Heat had 3 other all star caliber players besides Lebron in 2013 with the requirement of one making a series saving shot in game 6.
Kobe didnít get a bulk of his shots with allowed charging, traveling and also with less defenders on him.
The Warriors will likely win the next 2-3 years if not more.
Boston took Miami to 7 but lost, which is the point. Boston was up 3-2 in that series and lost Game 6 at home by 19 with a chance to seal the series, and lost Game 7 by 13, with LeBron averaging 38 pts and 13.5 rebounds on .596 shooting in the deciding two games. Boston was embarrassed in the final two games, Game 6 in particular is one of LeBron's legacy postseason games...

Lol at you calling Ray Allen an All-Star caliber player in '13. He averaged 11ppg and was clearly over the hill. He did save the series in Game 6 after LeBron brought them back, but that happens. I can think of some other "series savers" that helped secure some legacies out there (Kerr, Horry, Fisher, etc)...

Warriors will win one more chip max, but personally I think it's over...
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Old 12-01-2018, 05:06 AM
 
5,434 posts, read 1,547,253 times
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When we look at the Raptors, if the Raptors are the best the East has to offer, then the Warriors are a lock to win the championship this year.
I mean we just saw the Raptors struggle like crazy at home to beat the Warriors without Curry.
So if Warriors are a lock this year, I don't think its wise to say they're done winning championships after this season....
Heck, even if they lose Durant they are well-placed for 2019-20.
As long as Curry is healthy enough for the playoffs each year, they're the favorite.
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Old 12-01-2018, 06:40 AM
 
Location: Virginia Beach
4,212 posts, read 2,833,476 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MAGAalot View Post
When we look at the Raptors, if the Raptors are the best the East has to offer, then the Warriors are a lock to win the championship this year.
I mean we just saw the Raptors struggle like crazy at home to beat the Warriors without Curry.
So if Warriors are a lock this year, I don't think its wise to say they're done winning championships after this season....
Heck, even if they lose Durant they are well-placed for 2019-20.
As long as Curry is healthy enough for the playoffs each year, they're the favorite.
That's a little presumptuous to make after one game, to call GS a lock. I do, however, agree they are the favorites by a comfortable margin. No way in hell they are a lock...

If you want to make one game assessments, I can easily say the Warriors lost to both the Nuggets and Bucks with Steph, two teams with the length and matchups to defend them, and able to score with them. But I don't make one game assessments...

The Raptors are the best the East has to offer right now, and the only other team in the conversation is Milwaukee. Everyone else in the East looks like they'd get bludgeoned by The Dubs. Toronto and Milwaukee both can make it a series. And Toronto has played much, much better than they did the other night...

Sticking with my pick, Raps win the whole thing, but I'll say this, too. I'm not a believer in Milwaukee yet, but the trajectory is great and if they continue positively, they are going to be a serious title contender come April. And the Nuggets are the second best team in the West, they have a puncher's chance if they meet Golden State...

Back to the Raps real quick. Leonard and Green have elevated the confidence of that roster. I don't think Kawhi us back to Top 5 status, but his presence changes the way you have to approach Toronto. KD made some difficult shots over Kawhi thr other night but we know those shots don't always fall. Kawhi and Green give the Raptors, already a great defensive team, two potential lockdown wings. How many other teams have TWO lockdown wings, which you need to beat the Warriors? And Kawhi's ability to control both sides of the floor and drop 30+ with a team of shooters around him, this team is better than the Spurs team two years ago that was blowing out Golden State in Oakland in Game 1 of the WCF. if Kawhi fully regains that form, they will be okay versus The Dubs...

Let me take one more moment to fawn over Luka Doncic. I'm telling you guys here first, he has "best player in the game potential". By Year 3, this guy will be a Top 10 player and have the Mavs back in contention, maybe sooner. I haven't seen a rookie like this guy in years and I'm telling you, look at all the young players (Years 1-4) around the NBA. He's better than all of them already, including the overrated Ben Simmons. This kid Doncic is more than special, the Dallas Mavericks struck gold and got Dirk reincarnated (in impact, obviously a different skill set than Dirk). He is going to be a perennial MVP candidate for a long time and make the Mavs a destination...
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