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Old 01-09-2019, 07:56 AM
 
Location: Gulf Coast Texas
28,506 posts, read 15,466,875 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
...

I would love a Bucks/Nuggets Finals. ...
Milwaukee and Denver?? ... the network execs would have a cow... totally.
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Old 01-09-2019, 08:55 AM
 
5,446 posts, read 1,550,803 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allan Trafton View Post
I don't know about the rest of you, but I have hard getting excited about Harden when he only shoots 44% from the field year almost every year. The rest of the elite players mentioned in the MVP race almost always shoot 50% or better almost every year. Giannis is shooting 58% for crying out loud and James, Durant, Davis are all over 50%. Leonard is at 49.9% which is close enough and Curry is around 48%
I'm only excited about Harden's entertainment value, I definitely don't consider him the best player in the NBA (I value defense too much to say Harden is the best player) but Harden or Giannis will win MVP.

As for the shooting%, the MVP is definitely not decided by shooting%.
Its all about narrative, and if the MVP was awarded today it would go to Giannis.
Giannis has had the best narrative overall this season, even though Harden has the best narrative of the last 2 weeks.

If Houston are able to finish #1 in West, then the MVP may go to Harden again because he's having his best season ever, and he's doing it without Paul.....and even when Paul plays he's not an all-star anymore.
Of course, Giannis is doing it without an all-star teammate, so if Milwaukee finish #1 in the East then he may win MVP.
Its a toss-up between those guys, and will depend on the end of season standings.
Neither of them are going to stop producing, so its all about team success.

Leonard won't win MVP, Toronto still look like one of the best in the East when he's not playing.
LeBron won't win MVP, Lakers won't finish high enough.
Curry won't win MVP, he's already won it twice, and he's playing with all-stars so his team definitely needs to dominate the NBA to make up for the all-star teammates issue.
Anthony Davis has zero chance, he's a stone cold loser and can only win with Rondo.
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Old 01-09-2019, 10:46 AM
 
Location: Wisconsin
2,763 posts, read 2,373,949 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
Milwaukee and Denver?? ... the network execs would have a cow... totally.
With the pacers vs bucks in the eastern conference finals. And thunder and nuggets in the west. Small markets for the win!
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Old 01-09-2019, 11:23 AM
 
3,565 posts, read 1,877,378 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allan Trafton View Post
I don't know about the rest of you, but I have hard getting excited about Harden when he only shoots 44% from the field year almost every year. The rest of the elite players mentioned in the MVP race almost always shoot 50% or better almost every year. Giannis is shooting 58% for crying out loud and James, Durant, Davis are all over 50%. Leonard is at 49.9% which is close enough and Curry is around 48%

Harden takes more than 12 3s per game. His shooting percentage is not as good as a result, but his efficiency is better than AD, LeBron, and Leonard. His combination of volume and efficiency (plus playmaking) is an incredible achievement. I still hate watching him take 11+ free throws per game.



Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
No I'm with you. Harden is an elite scorer but he isn't a great shooter. He's a good shooter and he's a throwback scorer in the sense that he's a chucker; his game would have been perfect in the Iverson/Kobe eras and no one would criticize his game...

I sort of agree. He's a better playmaker & distributor than Iverson or Kobe ever were. Harden is a ball dominant scoring point guard with good size. He's not the greatest shooter, but his scoring efficiency is elite (and his FT is very high).



Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
I've never been a Harden fan, but I can appreciate his unique skill set. His game is predicated off getting to the line, again, throwback player somewhat to that degree. He has the ability to score at all levels on the floor, which is what makes him dangerous. When he's on, he can take you from anywhere, and few have ever been as good drawing contact...

He can also pass all over the floor when the defense collapses on his drive. That's a really important piece of his talent. Kobe wasn't finding guys in these spots when he drove to the basket.



Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
But absolutely, this guy is not an elite shooter. I wouldn't being Giannis' FG% up though, only about 14% of his total field goals attempted are from 3, and he's only hitting 17% of those. I don't know how many shots he takes outside the paint, but it damn sure isn't alot. Giannis is gifted and worth the price of admission, but he is a little overrated. I do like him though, in contrast to I really don't like Harden, but until Giannis has a consistent J and his talent translates into postseason success, I think we are overeating him on his endless potential...

Giannis needs to be surrounded by shooters. He's got that right now. We will see if the better playoff defenses and tighter whistles can muck up Milwaukee's offense.



Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
This MVP race is tight to me. Through the first half Giannis has as strong a case as anyone. Harden, Steph, LeBron, Jokic, Kawhi are the other 5 serious contenders. In the case of Steph and LeBron, we've seen their value for a Most Valuable Player award, their teams go in the dumpster without them, and when those two are playing, they still look like two of the three best players in the NBA...

I stop looking at MVP candidates after the top 2 seeds. Giannis, Kawhi, Jokic, Steph, KD are all legitimate contenders right now in my view, with Giannis well ahead of everyone else.


It does remain true that Steph and LBJ are the two best players in the NBA, though.



Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
Jokic nailed a game winner tonight, is a 7-footer who shoots 50% and can shoot from anywhere, is a triple double threat every night, and a colossal mismatch. I guess he isn't given more respect because of where he plays and because he hasn't been in the postseason, but he is certainly in the conversation. His team is #1 in The West and has held Top 3 seeding for the entire first half. His team is real and his game is realer...

There is a lot to like about Jokic and Denver. He won't get MVP buzz because of how he plays more than anything, I think.


While it has no bearing on the MVP race, I expect that Denver will look worse in the playoffs than they do in the regular season.



Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
And I personally feel Harden is in the driver seat right now with his play over the last month-plus. This is gonna be a tight race this year. It's going to come down to who was the most consistent wire to wire, or who separates with a historic moment. This is why Harden is the leader for me right now, but Jokic and Giannis have been the most consistent players, and haven't missed any time like LeBron, Curry, Kawhi...

Houston is still the 5 seed in the West. I hope the hoops media learned its lesson with the Westbrook MVP.



Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
I would love a Bucks/Nuggets Finals. Here's a real question, if you had to start your team with Jokic or Giannis, who do you take and why? I'm sure almost everyone is gonna blindly say Giannis, but while their style of play is different, they create much of the same results for their teams. I don't think there's a wrong answer, but I'm inclined to take Jokic!

I take Giannis. He's a big plus on both offense & defense, and he can play fast.



Quote:
Originally Posted by MAGAalot View Post
I'm only excited about Harden's entertainment value, I definitely don't consider him the best player in the NBA (I value defense too much to say Harden is the best player) but Harden or Giannis will win MVP.

Giannis is leading a top offense & top defense to the best record in the league. Harden is leading a top offense and a poor defense to the 12th best record in the league. Harden is not in the MVP race at this point.



Quote:
Originally Posted by MAGAalot View Post
As for the shooting%, the MVP is definitely not decided by shooting%.
Its all about narrative, and if the MVP was awarded today it would go to Giannis.
Giannis has had the best narrative overall this season, even though Harden has the best narrative of the last 2 weeks.

By my count, there has been one MVP in the league since 75-76 that wasn't on a top 2 seed, and that was the Westbrook travesty--an MVP ignominiously bounced out of the first round of the playoffs in a gentleman's sweep. Unless Harden can carry the Rockets ahead of Denver or Golden State in the standings, his performance should be ignored in MVP voting.



Quote:
Originally Posted by MAGAalot View Post
If Houston are able to finish #1 in West, then the MVP may go to Harden again because he's having his best season ever, and he's doing it without Paul.....and even when Paul plays he's not an all-star anymore.
Of course, Giannis is doing it without an all-star teammate, so if Milwaukee finish #1 in the East then he may win MVP.
Its a toss-up between those guys, and will depend on the end of season standings.
Neither of them are going to stop producing, so its all about team success.

Let's see Houston get to the 1 seed, first. Giannis is the clear leader at this point in the season.



Quote:
Originally Posted by MAGAalot View Post
Leonard won't win MVP, Toronto still look like one of the best in the East when he's not playing.
LeBron won't win MVP, Lakers won't finish high enough.
Curry won't win MVP, he's already won it twice, and he's playing with all-stars so his team definitely needs to dominate the NBA to make up for the all-star teammates issue.
Anthony Davis has zero chance, he's a stone cold loser and can only win with Rondo.

Leonard is certainly a viable candidate, though it's hard to see what would put him ahead of Giannis at this point in the season & he can't miss many more games.


I agree on LBJ.


Curry can't miss many more games, but his record and numbers are justifiable at this point. The Warriors are a top 2 seed & Curry is the 2nd-leading scorer with the best scoring efficiency of the league's volume scorers.


Anthony Davis' team is too bad for him to win. They would be a lot better with Payton than they have been without him.
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Old 01-09-2019, 04:50 PM
 
Location: Gulf Coast Texas
28,506 posts, read 15,466,875 times
Reputation: 11420
Quote:
Originally Posted by everwinter View Post
With the pacers vs bucks in the eastern conference finals. And thunder and nuggets in the west. Small markets for the win!
Small ratings riding shotgun...
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Old 01-09-2019, 08:49 PM
 
Location: Milwaukee
915 posts, read 1,663,100 times
Reputation: 1549
Statement win for the Bucks tonight vs Houston. Giannis 27/21, MVP numbers again. They have now beaten Toronto twice, Golden State, Houston, San Antonio, Boston, Philly, Indiana, Portland, Denver twice and a few other good teams.

At some point people will realize that Malcom Brogdon is a good player. This hasn't happened yet.
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Old 01-10-2019, 03:16 AM
 
5,446 posts, read 1,550,803 times
Reputation: 2282
Giannis wrenched the MVP narrative back from Harden, and actually Harden only had it for about 2 weeks.
Giannis is the prototype MVP winner, scores a lot, plays great defense, and his team is top of the conference.
We've had some MVPs recently that don't play much defense, so good to see Giannis restoring the MVP's meaning of being valuable at both ends.
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Old 01-10-2019, 04:33 AM
 
17,319 posts, read 10,225,457 times
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Yup, like I said, Kuzma is an all star.

Zo had some really beautiful passes last night.
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Old 01-10-2019, 06:22 AM
 
17,319 posts, read 10,225,457 times
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There's a price to pay for wanting to put in incredible stats every single game and get another MVP

Is James Harden setting himself up for another postseason failure?

Quote:
Harden’s regular seasons have been filled with great stats, ankle-breaking moves and hilarious moments that have been turned into GIFs, and there’s something to be said about a player who takes 82 games so seriously.

But his postseason endings have left plenty to be desired.

His 2012 NBA Finals showing — 12.4 points per game on 37.5 percent shooting — as a member of the Oklahoma City Thunder is still a head-scratcher. In 2015, he had 12 turnovers for the Rockets in Game 5 of the West finals as the Golden State Warriors advanced. In Game 5 of the 2017 semis, ancient Manu Ginobili swiped a potentially tying triple from behind as Harden barely had any lift on his jumper. That was followed by a 2-of-11 showing in a 39-point beatdown at Houston that ended the series in six games.

When you’re going for history, these one-offs will be more scrutinized.

His final three games in last year’s West finals showed a tired player, and the Warriors knew Harden’s tank was on “E” in Games 6 and 7. Harden shot just 36 percent and went 6-of-36 in those final three games — the biggest of his career — while turning it over nearly seven times a night. A big part of that is D’Antoni’s system, keeping the ball in Harden’s hands more than the average ball-dominant star. But Harden doesn’t seem to mind and hasn’t altered enough of his game during the slow months of December and January to leave enough juice for May and June.
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Old 01-10-2019, 11:42 AM
 
3,565 posts, read 1,877,378 times
Reputation: 2263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Allan Trafton View Post
Statement win for the Bucks tonight vs Houston. Giannis 27/21, MVP numbers again. They have now beaten Toronto twice, Golden State, Houston, San Antonio, Boston, Philly, Indiana, Portland, Denver twice and a few other good teams.

At some point people will realize that Malcom Brogdon is a good player. This hasn't happened yet.

Rookie of the year and still the dark horse of the 2016 draft. Doesn't make many mistakes, excellent shooter, quality contributor on both ends at this early stage, great size and length for the position. He reminds me of Deron Williams in the Utah years.



Quote:
Originally Posted by MAGAalot View Post
Giannis wrenched the MVP narrative back from Harden, and actually Harden only had it for about 2 weeks.
Giannis is the prototype MVP winner, scores a lot, plays great defense, and his team is top of the conference.
We've had some MVPs recently that don't play much defense, so good to see Giannis restoring the MVP's meaning of being valuable at both ends.

Giannis is leading the best team through this point of the year, and doing it while playing like an MVP. That's the big mark in his book.



James Harden is averaging a 5.5 turnovers per game. I didn't have a chance to watch last night's game, but the 9 turnovers from Harden leap out of the box score. Harden's numbers this year are very reminiscent of his '16-17 season, when he had an MVP-caliber regular season, but ran into the buzzsaw of Spurs defense in the 2nd round of the playoffs.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburban_Guy View Post
There's a price to pay for wanting to put in incredible stats every single game and get another MVP

Is James Harden setting himself up for another postseason failure?

I don't think fatigue is a factor. I think that tighter playoff whistles and better playoff defenses are the factors that cause Harden's relative declines in the playoffs (most stars' numbers diminish in the postseason).
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