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Old 11-23-2018, 08:42 PM
 
Location: Wylie, Texas
1,690 posts, read 2,469,494 times
Reputation: 2704

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ok
Now let me preface by saying this: I don't think Zion Williamson is a bad player. Not at all. By all accounts he's living up to the hype at Duke thus far. But I'm reading everywhere that NBA teams had better start tanking so that they can grab this guy in the draft where he's supposed to be either number 1 at best or a lottery pick at worst.

How is this even possible? He's 6'7, 285 lbs. He's an undersized power forward/center who thrives when playing physical on the inside. While he can make the outside jumper (sometimes) its not his strength at all. Bigger question, who exactly is he going to guard in the NBA??? At 6'7 he's way too small to bang with your typical NBA 4 or 5 (Think Anthony Davis, Joel Embiid, etc, all 6'10 and taller. They would eat him for breakfast in the low post) but at 285 lbs he would be too slow to guard NBA small forwards on the perimeter.

The easy solution would be to say "well he just needs to lose weight". But the problem is that from what I've seen of him, his game is based on power not finesse, all power dunks and stuff inside. I think it would be harder for him to keep playing that type of game if he dropped down to 235 lbs which would actually be more in line with his height.

The other thing is I watched some of the Gonzaga game. I found it interesting that he wasn't the number one option at the end there. if he's not the clear top option on a college team, how is that going to happen when he's the number one pick playing with seasoned NBA players, all or most of whom would have more years seniority? The one thing that stood out about the great NBA stars who played college was that they stood head and shoulders above EVERYONE in college. Think Durant or Carmelo at Syracuse, even compared to other guys on their teams who would be good enough to play in the NBA, there was no question as to who was top dog. There is a serious question with Zion.

Then there's the weight thing. 285 lbs as a broke college teenager? say hello to weight problems once he starts making that NBA money. If you've watched the NBA long enough, plenty of players have eaten their way out of the NBA. I would be scared to death if I was an NBA exec.

Now do I think he would be a terrible NBA player? No. in the right situation, he could become a decent role player or maybe coming off the bench but lottery pick franchise player? no way.


Sad thing is, I can think of one sport in which he WOULD be a franchise type player...football! he's basically Gronkowski 2.0. Same size/height, only even more athletic than Gronk (with a 42 inch vertical). In football he would be a lottery pick, and when you remember that he isn't even the first basketball player to make the leap (see Antonio Gates) it's not out of the question for him. Like I said, in the NBA he would at best be a role player with a decent probability of being a bust. In the NFL he would be a superstar with a potentially HOF career ahead of him.
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Old 11-24-2018, 09:37 AM
 
4,291 posts, read 1,855,533 times
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The way the money works out I think you can make more as second or third tier NBA level player than you can as a pro-bowl level NFL player.
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Old 11-24-2018, 06:23 PM
Status: "We The North" (set 24 days ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
25,748 posts, read 13,395,224 times
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He's fun to watch. And along with my fellow Canuck Barrett, probably the 1-A and/or 1-B pick in the draft.
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Old 11-26-2018, 12:06 PM
 
3,565 posts, read 1,872,849 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill the Butcher View Post
The way the money works out I think you can make more as second or third tier NBA level player than you can as a pro-bowl level NFL player.

Plus you can end your career with a functioning brain.



Quote:
Originally Posted by biafra4life View Post
ok
Now let me preface by saying this: I don't think Zion Williamson is a bad player. Not at all. By all accounts he's living up to the hype at Duke thus far. But I'm reading everywhere that NBA teams had better start tanking so that they can grab this guy in the draft where he's supposed to be either number 1 at best or a lottery pick at worst.

How is this even possible? He's 6'7, 285 lbs. He's an undersized power forward/center who thrives when playing physical on the inside. While he can make the outside jumper (sometimes) its not his strength at all. Bigger question, who exactly is he going to guard in the NBA??? At 6'7 he's way too small to bang with your typical NBA 4 or 5 (Think Anthony Davis, Joel Embiid, etc, all 6'10 and taller. They would eat him for breakfast in the low post) but at 285 lbs he would be too slow to guard NBA small forwards on the perimeter.

The easy solution would be to say "well he just needs to lose weight". But the problem is that from what I've seen of him, his game is based on power not finesse, all power dunks and stuff inside. I think it would be harder for him to keep playing that type of game if he dropped down to 235 lbs which would actually be more in line with his height.

The other thing is I watched some of the Gonzaga game. I found it interesting that he wasn't the number one option at the end there. if he's not the clear top option on a college team, how is that going to happen when he's the number one pick playing with seasoned NBA players, all or most of whom would have more years seniority? The one thing that stood out about the great NBA stars who played college was that they stood head and shoulders above EVERYONE in college. Think Durant or Carmelo at Syracuse, even compared to other guys on their teams who would be good enough to play in the NBA, there was no question as to who was top dog. There is a serious question with Zion.

Then there's the weight thing. 285 lbs as a broke college teenager? say hello to weight problems once he starts making that NBA money. If you've watched the NBA long enough, plenty of players have eaten their way out of the NBA. I would be scared to death if I was an NBA exec.

Now do I think he would be a terrible NBA player? No. in the right situation, he could become a decent role player or maybe coming off the bench but lottery pick franchise player? no way.

Sad thing is, I can think of one sport in which he WOULD be a franchise type player...football! he's basically Gronkowski 2.0. Same size/height, only even more athletic than Gronk (with a 42 inch vertical). In football he would be a lottery pick, and when you remember that he isn't even the first basketball player to make the leap (see Antonio Gates) it's not out of the question for him. Like I said, in the NBA he would at best be a role player with a decent probability of being a bust. In the NFL he would be a superstar with a potentially HOF career ahead of him.

Predicting which college players can make the leap is always dicey. At 285, he can play 4 in the NBA if he has the effort, determination, and smarts. Melo could have, too--and he would have been a much better NBA player. Bigger question: can he shoot, can he handle, can he pass? He doesn't look like he will have the agility to guard wings on the perimeter, but he's still a Fr. in college. That could change.


His shooting is not inspiring. His handle looks decent for his size. His passing isn't anything to write home about. I think he's a risky pick. Right now, he looks far too one-dimensional for the NBA, and he must develop plus defense to become a heavy rotation player, much less a star.



James Worthy was the star on an 80s Tar Heels team that included one of the greatest basketball players ever.
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Old 11-26-2018, 01:41 PM
Status: "think locally, act yokelly." (set 19 days ago)
 
Location: Clyde Hill, WA
3,227 posts, read 574,473 times
Reputation: 974
Some guys create their own niche. Charles Barkley was one who did. I don't think there has been a player quite like him before or since. He was 6'5, 250 lbs. But incredibly agile and strong. Dennis Rodman was another. Probably Bird and Magic, too. For many years after Bird, people would say X is the next Bird (Danny Ferry was one). I don't think the 'next Bird' ever actually hatched.

Who knows, but it is possible that Williamson could add to that list. I looked up his free-throw percentage, which I think can be a tell-tale regarding guys who have trouble with outside shooting. It's currently 68% (after 6 games) --not great, but not horrible either.

edit I looked up ZW's high school stats--63% Free throws, and 25% in threes. Not exactly confidence inspiring if I'm an NBA GM.
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Old 11-26-2018, 01:44 PM
 
4,490 posts, read 3,152,573 times
Reputation: 4293
He can get there if he wants to be there. Two players come to mind in this discussion, Karl Anthony Towns and Andrew Wiggins. Two guys who have the right size for their positions, but maybe lack the heart to play for than just an 82 game season. It's all about if you want it or not. Look at Spud Webb, JJ Barea, Mugsy Bogues, Nate Robinson, and so on. Guys who shouldn't had of made it in the NBA, but had long careers just out hustling the competition.


Zion is good hype for college. He lacks a shot, but didn't Lebron lack a consistent shot before he went to Miami? Zion can get there, because Zion is the closest thing to Lebron in college in my lifetime. Just a freakish individual size wise who can still run the floor. He won't hone his skills at Duke, that will happen for the next coach at the NBA level. I want to see how his game has progressed when he's 25. Is he a number 1 or number 2 option or is he just a role player?
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Old 11-26-2018, 02:02 PM
Status: "think locally, act yokelly." (set 19 days ago)
 
Location: Clyde Hill, WA
3,227 posts, read 574,473 times
Reputation: 974
285 lbs. and 40" vertical leap are pretty amazing, if those numbers are accurate. He should probably follow LeBron's example and try to cut some of that weight. His knees, hips, ankles, and feet would thank him.
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Old 11-27-2018, 10:40 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,243 posts, read 26,214,003 times
Reputation: 11701
I also wonder how he'll translate to the NBA. He looks like a man among boys right now, but we know he won't be able to out-athlete everyone in the NBA. He won't be all that successful if he doesn't develop a shot.
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Old 11-27-2018, 02:16 PM
Status: "think locally, act yokelly." (set 19 days ago)
 
Location: Clyde Hill, WA
3,227 posts, read 574,473 times
Reputation: 974
Remember Harold Miner, who was called 'baby Jordan' for his leaping and dunking? He lasted 4 years, and avg 9 pts/game.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6pey7TYjQE
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Old 11-27-2018, 03:18 PM
 
4,490 posts, read 3,152,573 times
Reputation: 4293
Zion will need to go to a team that has a competent front office and that's likely not going to happen in the 2019 draft, since I'm assuming he's going to declare. His best chance would be to not be a lottery pick, but that's next to impossible. He'll be forced into a #1 option and that's not good to be in his best interest, with his limited NBA skillset, yet raw talent.
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