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Old 11-25-2018, 10:36 AM
 
Location: Virginia Beach
4,209 posts, read 2,825,676 times
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Granted, he's only 7.25 seasons into his career (this is Year 8), but this question is fair. The great ones, we unquestionably knew by Year 8 if they were HOFers, go down the list...

When I think about Kyrie, his signature is that he's a big stage performer. That alone I'm not sure is enough to warrant HOF consideration. Tony Parker is one of the five best big game (postseason/Finals) players I've ever seen, and he was consistently good for a longer stretch than Kyrie. Chauncey Billups was a big game performer but he isn't in The Hall...

In four of Kyrie's first 7 seasons, he played in fewer than 85% of games, so at this stage availability isn't in his favor. He's played in a PG-rich era, and he was never anybody's consensus #1, only in brief intervals would he be considered Top 3. He plays very well in head-to-head matches versus other elite points, but in a team sport, doesn't translate that level of play over a full year. He never leads the NBA in anything--scoring, assists, assist-to-turnover, shooting efficiency, steals, nothing. Oh wait--there is those handles, i guess that's HOF worthy...

Kyrie strikes me as a guy with tremendous upside, but i think we overrated him from the start. He has HOF potential but can't sustain it year-over-year, and if you were making a list of top PG's of this era, he's instantly behind Curry and Paul and Westbrook, and Dame and Parker (look at Parker's play in the first half of this decade, he was one of the best players in The League) will have compelling arguments as having been better players. Kyrie is a better shooting John Wall; Wall is a better playmaker than Kyrie. If you line Kyrie up against the great points, they all do more things better than him, than he does things better than they...

Of course the BHOF let's every marginal star in, so he'll probably get in anyway, but if we measured him against the peers of his era, it's not looking good...
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Old 11-25-2018, 01:48 PM
 
51,887 posts, read 41,774,553 times
Reputation: 32369
Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
Granted, he's only 7.25 seasons into his career (this is Year 8), but this question is fair. The great ones, we unquestionably knew by Year 8 if they were HOFers, go down the list...

When I think about Kyrie, his signature is that he's a big stage performer. That alone I'm not sure is enough to warrant HOF consideration. Tony Parker is one of the five best big game (postseason/Finals) players I've ever seen, and he was consistently good for a longer stretch than Kyrie. Chauncey Billups was a big game performer but he isn't in The Hall...

In four of Kyrie's first 7 seasons, he played in fewer than 85% of games, so at this stage availability isn't in his favor. He's played in a PG-rich era, and he was never anybody's consensus #1, only in brief intervals would he be considered Top 3. He plays very well in head-to-head matches versus other elite points, but in a team sport, doesn't translate that level of play over a full year. He never leads the NBA in anything--scoring, assists, assist-to-turnover, shooting efficiency, steals, nothing. Oh wait--there is those handles, i guess that's HOF worthy...

Kyrie strikes me as a guy with tremendous upside, but i think we overrated him from the start. He has HOF potential but can't sustain it year-over-year, and if you were making a list of top PG's of this era, he's instantly behind Curry and Paul and Westbrook, and Dame and Parker (look at Parker's play in the first half of this decade, he was one of the best players in The League) will have compelling arguments as having been better players. Kyrie is a better shooting John Wall; Wall is a better playmaker than Kyrie. If you line Kyrie up against the great points, they all do more things better than him, than he does things better than they...

Of course the BHOF let's every marginal star in, so he'll probably get in anyway, but if we measured him against the peers of his era, it's not looking good...
The BHOF let's marginal stars in? Like who?

After all, it's not the NBA HOF, which does not exist.

Based upon his NBA stuff.....not even close. The gold medal etc. will help if he keeps adding on. Guy only has 1 all-nba team and that's 3rd team.
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Old 11-25-2018, 02:04 PM
 
Location: Virginia Beach
4,209 posts, read 2,825,676 times
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You're right, I have a bad tendency at judging the professional careers of American players. The big name that jumped in my mind was Ray Allen, who was a good pro but not even a Top 20 player of his era (2000s). But I'm also too young too have watched him in college, and I understand his college career was outstanding, correct?

I really wish there was an NBA HOF lol...

So you're in agreeance with Kyrie, not HOFer?
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Old 11-26-2018, 12:12 PM
 
3,565 posts, read 1,873,300 times
Reputation: 2263
Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
Granted, he's only 7.25 seasons into his career (this is Year 8), but this question is fair. The great ones, we unquestionably knew by Year 8 if they were HOFers, go down the list...

When I think about Kyrie, his signature is that he's a big stage performer. That alone I'm not sure is enough to warrant HOF consideration. Tony Parker is one of the five best big game (postseason/Finals) players I've ever seen, and he was consistently good for a longer stretch than Kyrie. Chauncey Billups was a big game performer but he isn't in The Hall...

In four of Kyrie's first 7 seasons, he played in fewer than 85% of games, so at this stage availability isn't in his favor. He's played in a PG-rich era, and he was never anybody's consensus #1, only in brief intervals would he be considered Top 3. He plays very well in head-to-head matches versus other elite points, but in a team sport, doesn't translate that level of play over a full year. He never leads the NBA in anything--scoring, assists, assist-to-turnover, shooting efficiency, steals, nothing. Oh wait--there is those handles, i guess that's HOF worthy...

Kyrie strikes me as a guy with tremendous upside, but i think we overrated him from the start. He has HOF potential but can't sustain it year-over-year, and if you were making a list of top PG's of this era, he's instantly behind Curry and Paul and Westbrook, and Dame and Parker (look at Parker's play in the first half of this decade, he was one of the best players in The League) will have compelling arguments as having been better players. Kyrie is a better shooting John Wall; Wall is a better playmaker than Kyrie. If you line Kyrie up against the great points, they all do more things better than him, than he does things better than they...

Of course the BHOF let's every marginal star in, so he'll probably get in anyway, but if we measured him against the peers of his era, it's not looking good...

Chauncey deserves to be in.


For Kyrie: I expect he will get in. I would judge that he should not. Kyrie was the 3rd best player on the Cavs for the LBJ runs. Does Horace Grant deserve the HOF? Kyrie is Jason Terry plus and not Chauncey minus.
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Old 11-28-2018, 01:44 PM
 
51,887 posts, read 41,774,553 times
Reputation: 32369
Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
You're right, I have a bad tendency at judging the professional careers of American players. The big name that jumped in my mind was Ray Allen, who was a good pro but not even a Top 20 player of his era (2000s). But I'm also too young too have watched him in college, and I understand his college career was outstanding, correct?

I really wish there was an NBA HOF lol...

So you're in agreeance with Kyrie, not HOFer?
I don't see him as a HOFer at this point but we'll see what the future brings.

Main criteria:
1-Top end play, like lots of all-nba teams, euro league etc.
2-Longevity, huge career stats
3-College
4-Olympic\international

Allen and KI are matched on 1 & 4.
Allen has a lot of college honors that KI won't ever have

So either KI has to tack on some all-nba or perhaps and MVP award or he has to stack up a lot more points in the coming years.
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Old 11-28-2018, 01:52 PM
 
51,887 posts, read 41,774,553 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post
Chauncey deserves to be in.


For Kyrie: I expect he will get in. I would judge that he should not. Kyrie was the 3rd best player on the Cavs for the LBJ runs. Does Horace Grant deserve the HOF? Kyrie is Jason Terry plus and not Chauncey minus.
I think Billups gets in eventually.
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Old 11-29-2018, 09:22 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,252 posts, read 26,226,229 times
Reputation: 11706
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post
Kyrie is Jason Terry plus and not Chauncey minus.
C'mon, now. Are you still upset that Kyrie ate Curry's lunch in the Finals and made him call in Big Brother KD for help?

Jason Terry never even made an All-Star team so that comparison is null and void. Resume-wise, he is more comparable to John Wall, only he has a ring and a more distinguished post-season track record. Right now, I'd say he's not a HOFer, but 3-4 more All-Star appearances and another All-NBA Third Team selection could possibly put him over the edge.

Last edited by BajanYankee; 11-29-2018 at 09:36 AM..
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Old 11-29-2018, 09:34 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,252 posts, read 26,226,229 times
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Just looked this up. Here's a list of players who have made the All-Star team at least 5 times and have NOT been inducted to the BHOF.

Shawn Kemp (6x All Star)
Larry Costello (6x All Star)
Lou Hudson (6x All Star)
Chris Webber (5x All Star, 5x All NBA)
Sidney Moncrief (5x All Star)
Tim Hardaway (5x All Star, 5x All NBA)
Marques Johnson (5x All Star, 5x All NBA)
Brad Daugherty (5x All Star, 1x All NBA)
Bobby Jones (5x All Star)
Rudy LaRusso (5x All Star)
Maurice Lucas (5x All Star)
Charlie Scott (5x All Star)

Basketball Reference gives Joe Johnson a 50/50 shot of making the HOF with 7 All Star selections and 1 Third Team selection. If Kyrie finishes with 7 All Star selections, I'd think you'd have to give him a 60% shot at least considering he has hardware and some notable playoff performances.

Sidenote: Derrick Rose may become the only MVP in history to not make the HOF.

Last edited by BajanYankee; 11-29-2018 at 09:44 AM..
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Old 11-29-2018, 11:49 AM
 
Location: Virginia Beach
4,209 posts, read 2,825,676 times
Reputation: 4497
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Are you still upset that Kyrie ate Curry's lunch in the Finals and made him call in Big Brother KD for help?
This was too funny, you know he is!
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Old 11-29-2018, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,252 posts, read 26,226,229 times
Reputation: 11706
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Just looked this up. Here's a list of players who have made the All-Star team at least 5 times and have NOT been inducted to the BHOF.

Shawn Kemp (6x All Star)
Larry Costello (6x All Star)
Lou Hudson (6x All Star)
Chris Webber (5x All Star, 5x All NBA)
Sidney Moncrief (5x All Star)
Tim Hardaway (5x All Star, 5x All NBA)
Marques Johnson (5x All Star, 3x All NBA)
Brad Daugherty (5x All Star, 1x All NBA)
Bobby Jones (5x All Star)
Rudy LaRusso (5x All Star)
Maurice Lucas (5x All Star)
Charlie Scott (5x All Star)

Basketball Reference gives Joe Johnson a 50/50 shot of making the HOF with 7 All Star selections and 1 Third Team selection. If Kyrie finishes with 7 All Star selections, I'd think you'd have to give him a 60% shot at least considering he has hardware and some notable playoff performances.

Sidenote: Derrick Rose may become the only MVP in history to not make the HOF.
Correction: Marques Johnson made the All-NBA Team 3 times, not 5 times. But one of those was a First Team selection. He also won a championship at UCLA and was the Naismith Player of the Year. He ended his NBA career averaging 20 PPG and 7 RPG. That's not too shabby.

The real mystery to me is Paul Westphal. Won a ring, made the All NBA First Team 3 times and 4 times overall, and made 5 All-Star appearances. I realize his prime was short, but it seems like you should get more consideration if you're arguably a Top 5-10 player in the League for 5 years. He'll surely be remembered as another coach who lost to Jordan in the Finals more than he will be as a player.
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