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Yes, I think this was kind of a desperation move for the Rockets. They knew they were dead in the water without changing something, so they rolled the dice and brought in Westbrook. It probably won't work, but the alternative for sure would not work.
I agree it was a desperation move. But, if they were certain the alternative would not work, I question their managing and analytic ability. Last two years they got stopped by the Warriors. The Warriors are now weakened. If the Rockets had stayed pat they would have had the only Western team that had played together for multiple years. The Clippers, the Lakers, they have to figure out how to play together. Maybe they do it before games matter. Maybe not. Plus, Lebron is getting old, Davis has no record of playoff success, so the Clippers were the only real threat. And although Kawhi was game managed through the weak east, how is he really going to hold up out West, where there are no games off without risking the team's record.
Standing pat, of course, I agree, all depends on getting Harden and Paul back on the same page. With a good coach and GM who knows how to manage egos, it would have worked. Such a coach and GM would have together hopped a plane to see Harden, and then out to see Paul, and then flown them both to Houston for a sit-down, hammered it out, and been set for the season. Instead of working to manage people, the Rockets traded away a player that grates on others for trying to get them to play hard for a player that grates on others for not letting their teammates play hard or even do what they do best. Teammates don't like that, you're taking money out of their next contract. The Rockets traded heart disease for terminal cancer. No way that's a good trade.
I had forgotten that the Rockets traded Montrez Harrell, Patrick Beverly, and Lou Williams to the Clippers for Chris Paul. That looks like an incredibly dumb deal now for the Rockets. Those three are now the core of the supporting cast for the Clippers.
Much-vaunted Rockets GM Darrell Morey is much-overrated.
I had forgotten that the Rockets traded Montrez Harrell, Patrick Beverly, and Lou Williams to the Clippers for Chris Paul. That looks like an incredibly dumb deal now for the Rockets. Those three are now the core of the supporting cast for the Clippers.
Much-vaunted Rockets GM Darrell Morey is much-overrated.
Not overrated - he's done a good job for the most part keeping the Rockets relevant. Lately, he does seem to be desperate.
The CP3 trade likely would have got them to the finals last year. That trade wasn't a flop.
OK, thanks for that info. In their favor the other West super teams also do not have good bench depth.
I still say the Rockets success depends on whether Harden and Westbrook can refrain from chucking so much. Tough to win when your two high-scoring chuckers shoot below NBA league-wide average pct. It's also tough on team chemistry.
I watch pretty much all of their games.
Offensively, they are too predictable. And their philosophy is this is what we are doing... try and stop us. Most of the NBA couldn't, but the elite teams can. Players off the ball are stationary for the most part, with two filling each corner. Harden dribble drive... step back 3... pick and roll with Capela... dribble drive and dish for a corner 3.
Defense is about switching everything.
That's 90% of the offense and the entire defensive playbook.
It's hard for them to play outside of their comfort zone. If teams are giving them the mid-range jumper, they need to take it and make it. The was CP3's main value in the previous year. He could hack the Rockets' system and take the mid range shot and consistently make it.
1) Yes, this is a dumb trade, but the Rockets had to try something to change things up, and this was about as good of a get as they could've gotten
2) OKC, with the Paul & Jerani Grant trade have punted the 2020 and probably 21 seasons, and this was a good way to get Russ's bloated contract off the books.
3) I'm sure the Rockets would like to have Harrell, Patrick Beverely back, but let's not forget if Chris Paul doesn't get hurt last year they are likely the NBA champs since they likely would've finished off Golden State and probably would've beaten Cleveland. So, of course if they end up winning, you take throw away the cost of that, because you can never take away a championship. So, that's not as bad of a trade as it seems either.
I agree it was a desperation move. But, if they were certain the alternative would not work, I question their managing and analytic ability. Last two years they got stopped by the Warriors. The Warriors are now weakened. If the Rockets had stayed pat they would have had the only Western team that had played together for multiple years. The Clippers, the Lakers, they have to figure out how to play together. Maybe they do it before games matter. Maybe not. Plus, Lebron is getting old, Davis has no record of playoff success, so the Clippers were the only real threat. And although Kawhi was game managed through the weak east, how is he really going to hold up out West, where there are no games off without risking the team's record.
Standing pat, of course, I agree, all depends on getting Harden and Paul back on the same page. With a good coach and GM who knows how to manage egos, it would have worked. Such a coach and GM would have together hopped a plane to see Harden, and then out to see Paul, and then flown them both to Houston for a sit-down, hammered it out, and been set for the season. Instead of working to manage people, the Rockets traded away a player that grates on others for trying to get them to play hard for a player that grates on others for not letting their teammates play hard or even do what they do best. Teammates don't like that, you're taking money out of their next contract. The Rockets traded heart disease for terminal cancer. No way that's a good trade.
Both Harden and CP3 have to know that the window is closing; heck, Westbrook should know that as well. I dont know how you cant sit down with them and sell them on the fact that this might be your last best chance to get it done, so check your egos at the door.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC
I watch pretty much all of their games.
Offensively, they are too predictable. And their philosophy is this is what we are doing... try and stop us. Most of the NBA couldn't, but the elite teams can. Players off the ball are stationary for the most part, with two filling each corner. Harden dribble drive... step back 3... pick and roll with Capela... dribble drive and dish for a corner 3.
Defense is about switching everything.
That's 90% of the offense and the entire defensive playbook.
It's hard for them to play outside of their comfort zone. If teams are giving them the mid-range jumper, they need to take it and make it. The was CP3's main value in the previous year. He could hack the Rockets' system and take the mid range shot and consistently make it.
Westbrook is going to fit in great in this part of the system. He doesnt move on offense unless he has the ball; the problem is, he is a weak jump shooter in a three point system.
I regard both Harden and Westbrook as chuckers. They're both great all-around players, unlike most chuckers, but still chuckers. Harden shot .442 fg% this past season, and .368% in threes (one of his better years; he's .365 for career).
So in 3 of 4 cases, Harden and Westbrook are below league wide average. And in the 4th case, barely above average. If they are willing to alter their games and chuck it less and pass it more, they could be good, maybe even get a title this year. It's hard to teach an old dog new tricks, though.
Funny, those are basically Kobe Bryant's stats in his prime (Harden has better career for 3s) yet Kobe's elevated to more of an MJ level. Kobe without a real efficient big man (~60% FG) taking the load off would have been more of a 'chucker' as you've noted and as seen in the 04 Finals. To Kobe's credit, he did evolve his play making to a penetrate and passer during his 09-10 title run, but really relied on a heavy front line. It's no wonder Kobe respected and admired Westbrook the most given the similarities in their mindset. But Kobe at least knew to swallow his pride to win championships. If Westbrook seriously evolves his philosophy, they can go pretty far.
Not overrated - he's done a good job for the most part keeping the Rockets relevant. Lately, he does seem to be desperate.
The CP3 trade likely would have got them to the finals last year. That trade wasn't a flop.
point taken; there's something to be said for the fact that they did come close to a title in 2018. In the NBA if you have a chance for that, you have to go for it.
Do you agree that letting go of Ariza and Luc Mbah Moute, and bringing in Carmelo Anthony were brain-dead moves by Morey?
The Rockets will be worse, because they downgraded at the pg spot. In addition to being a better passer and defender, Paul is actually a better isolation scorer than Westbrook.
Harden led the league in iso possessions (16.4/game). He averaged 1.1 points per possession with an efg% of 51.2%.
Westbrook was third with 4.9 iso possessionsn. He averaged .75 points per possession, with an efg% of 38.1.
Paul was 5th with 4.7 iso posssesions, but he had much higher points per possession and efg at .92 and 46.5 respectively.
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