Rank the "elite 8" most tradition rich college bball programs (uniforms, Champion)

[RjRobb2]

Originally Posted by A_Lexus

UCLA
Kentucky
North Carolina
Georgetown
Connecticut
Arizona
Kansas
Duke
Indiana
Michigan
Marquette
Villanova

Did you really just rank Georgetown, UConn, and Arizona ahead of Duke, KU, and Indiana?

[slo1318]

All time NCAA Tourney appearances
NCAA Men's Division I Tournament bids by school - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

1st - Kentucky (50)
2nd - UCLA (43)
3rd - North Carolina (41)
4th - Kansas (38)
5th - tie - Louisville & Indiana (35)
6th - Duke (33)
7th - Syracuse (32)
8th - Villanova (30)

All time NCAA Tourney wins

1st - North Carolina (100)
2nd - UCLA (99)
3rd - Kentucky (98)
4th - Duke (88)
5th - Kansas (86)
6th - tie - Louisville & Indiana (60)
7th - Syracuse (50)
8th - Villanova (48)

All time Final Fours
NCAA Men's Division I Final Four appearances by school - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

1st - tie - North Carolina & UCLA (18)
2nd - Duke (14)
3rd - tie - Kansas & Kentucky (13)
4th - Ohio State (10)
5th - tie - Louisville & Indiana (8)
6th - Michigan State (7)
7th - 5 tied w/ 6
8th - 3 tied w/ 5

All time NCAA Champions -

#1 UCLA - 11
#2 Kentucky - 7
#3 Indiana - 5
#3tie North Carolina - 5
#5 Duke - 4
#6 Kansas - 3
#6tie UConn - 3

Based on these 3 post season parameters I'd list my all time "Elite 8" as...

The first 3 are toss ups - in any order
1. North Carolina
2. Kentucky
3. UCLA

That was funny, that based on your 3 post season parameters, UCLA was #3 in your opinion, when they were either #1 or #2 in all of them, and #3 in none of them. And, and the biggie that you didnt post, (all time titles) they are #1......UCLA should be #1.

[cmontague]

So much of this is a balancing act. I understand the arguments against UCLA, but the titles are just so plentiful and the consecutive championships will never be close to being matched in any major team sport, that extra points have to be awarded to UCLA. I think Duke for example as well, gets extra points for the last 25 years, but if all years were treated equally, Duke (and to the surpise of some who automatically throw Duke near the top of the heap) isn't all that spectacular before then. But I will take into account okay success for a long duration if there is a sustained level of high success for say, 20 years, which is reasonable to me but maybe not in the eyes of another reviewer. UConn may have only had decent regional success thru the 70's. But what they have done since Calhoun has taken over, weighs heavily and can swing the pendulum, not all the way to the level of say a Kansas who has the same # of titles, but higher than a level of schools such as Syracuse or Villanova, both of whom actually possess more wins.
If also we are going to count these more recent successes, where are the names like CCNY, San Francisco, and Cinci? Ok, so CCNY is no longer even a I-A school, but I would perhaps make a case for it as much, if not more than a Michigan based on the whole duration comprising major college basketball. I could also make a case that given the words "tradition rich", schools like Butler belong high on the list. Winning isn't the only thing some times, right?
It is all in the eyes of the beholder, though the only considerations that MUST be carefully scrutinized if winning is the most important thing, are total wins and tournament appearances: you can not equate those over the last 25-30 years with any 25-30 year period prior to that. You just can't for obvious reasons.

[JazzyTallGuy]

Originally Posted by RjRobb2

I think you all are ranking UCLA too high based on their John Wooden years. Outside of that period, UCLA has been a roller coaster program where they have some good seasons followed by some average to below average seasons. They are not consistently ranked as high as the main powerhouses like UK, UNC, and KU. UCLA has 350 less wins than those schools all-time.

Anyone not ranking KU in their Top 3 are crazy. The game's inventor was their first coach and have consistently been a powerhouse year after year. If you scour through their history, you will find that they are probably consistently ranked higher from year-to-year than any other school in the game's history. They have made the tournament for 23 straight seasons and 90% of the time they are a top 3 seed. For the last 25 years, there has been no better program in college basketball and they have the most winning seasons in college basketball with 92. KU is ranked in the Top 5 in pretty much every single category.

I believe being consistently great is more important than anything.

I would seperate them into two groups:

1. UNC, KU, UK - you really cannot seperate those schools IMO. They are the class of college basketball year after year.

2. Duke, Indiana, Syracuse, St. John's, and UCLA - These would trail behind them as the second tier.

Great post!

I agree with all the points you made especially about consistency. However I'd have to rate several programs over St. Johns based on their relative fall from grace in the last 20 years. These include Michigan State, Georgetown, and Arizona.

[RjRobb2]

Originally Posted by cmontague

I understand the arguments against UCLA, but the titles are just so plentiful and the consecutive championships will never be close to being matched in any major team sport, that extra points have to be awarded to UCLA.

Every single one of those championships should be vacated. They were cheating during that entire period but NCAA didnt dig into things like they did in today's world. Not a single one of those championships would stand in today's NCAA. Bill Walton and several UCLA basketball players have admitted to being paid a lot of money while there on top of other things.

[JazzyTallGuy]

Originally Posted by RjRobb2

Every single one of those championships should be vacated. They were cheating during that entire period but NCAA didnt dig into things like they did in today's world. Not a single one of those championships would stand in today's NCAA. Bill Walton and several UCLA basketball players have admitted to being paid a lot of money while there on top of other things.

If you dig deep enough the majority of championships in major college sports would be vacated. The entire recruiting and retaining of college athletes is rife with corruption, and fraud, Many teams are just the combination of the best that money, sex and fudged grades can buy.

[REPBOY]

Kentucky
UCLA
Duke
N.C.
Kansas
Indiana
Louisville
Georgetown
Villanova
Syracuse
U.Conn
Michigan
Ohio State
Cincinatti
Arizona
Michigan State
Arkansas
Illinois
Maryland
Oklahoma
Utah
Memphis
Oklahoma State
Texas
Kansas State

[oogly5412]

I think Michigan basketball, considering the years of sactions, has an under appreciated history. Not trying to argue they should be top 8, but Syracuse shouldn't be either.

Final Four Appearances by school.
18 - North Carolina
18 - UCLA* (one vacated)
15 - Duke, Kentucky
14 - Kansas
11 - Ohio State* (one vacated)
10 - Louisville
8 - Indiana, Michigan State
7 - Michigan* (two vacated)
6 - Arkansas, Cincinnati, Oklahoma State
5 - Georgetown, Houston, Illinois, Syracuse

[supermanpansy]

I don't find UCLA as a top tier school at all. First off, they won most of their championships in a fifteen year period. Secondly, they did so when the NCAA tournament had fewer teams in it. What have they done for years? Nothing. So here is my ranking, I am being as bias as possible.

1. Kentucky
2. Duke
3. North Carolina
4. Kansas
5. Louisville
6. Indiana
7. Syracuse
8. Michigan st.

UCLA was an enigma. They haven't won anything in years; furthermore, they haven't been relevant for years. So they won, way back when white guys dominated the sport and the tourney was easier to win. I just think that they are very over-rated. I doubt they will ever win again. All of these other teams that I have listed have been very relevant at least for the last 30 years.

[JoulesMSU]

lol at some people ranking Michigan ahead of Michigan State.

State has more National Titles, Final Fours, Big Ten Titles, NCAA Tournament Appearances, and basically more everything compared to those noobs down the road.

Our best player (Magic) is even better than anyone they've ever had. lol