Most underrated player in your opinion (players, game)

[Pug Life]

Originally Posted by Black Jack22

John Starks

As a Warriors fan, I HATE John Starks because of how bad he was when he was on our roster.

Underrated players:
Andris Biedrins: Seriously, the guy has led the league in FG%, is a great rebounder, can block shots and he can even pass. This year with Yao injured, Biedrins truly should be an all-star in the West, he's superior to every other true Center in the west these days.

I could name a couple other Warriors, but I'l stop with him. Anthony Morrow is an insane shooter and so is Kelenna Azubuike.

Steve Novak: One of the best pure shooters alive, he can't ever seem to get PT because he's a skinny white boy who can't jump. Dude can shoot lights out though.

Kevin Martin: His awesome hair aside, this guy is surely one of the most dangerous players in the league. As a fan, I fear Martin more than any other player in the league because he can slash AND shoot CONSISTENTLY.

Jose Calderon: As the Warriors were floundering in 07-08 in 9th place, I suggested that they trade Baron Davis for Jose Calderon (with some extra pieces being thrown around for Cap reasons) and everyone laughed at me. Last season Calderon only missed 3 FTs ALL YEAR. I've seen Davis miss that many in the 4th quarter tons of times. He also had 4.24 Assists for every turnover, a lot better than Davis' mediocre 2.56 ratio. He also shot better from 3 and from 2 in addition to being a better PG and FT shooter.

Danny Granger: When people talk about the league's top-5 players, this guy NEVER enters into the conversation. HE SHOULD. Last season averages:
25.7 Points
5.1 Rebounds
2.7 Assists
1.0 Steals
1.4 Blocks.
Those are MVP numbers.

David Lee: A white guy with the last name Lee...doesn't really fit to me, but he sure can put up numbers though.

Ramon Sessions: Anyone who can dish out 24 dimes in a game and STILL be a possible D-Leaguer the next season is underrated to me. Not only that, but he had 16 games last year where he did not turn the ball over once, tallying 53 assists in those games.


MOST OVERRATED PLAYERS:
YAO MING
DIRK NOWITZKI

Both of them suck. Dirk can be easily dominated if you play defense on him, and he is streaky. Yao is 7'6 and yet he doesn't block that many shots, doesn't rebound that well and doesn't shoot at a really high % and turns the ball over a lot (6th in the league this year). After all, David Lee, Andris Biedrins, Nene, Shaq, Pao, Emeka and D-Howard all shoot better than him and are all 5 inches shorter than he is. Yao is pretty good, but he's never been able to stay healthy and he ALWAYS gets every call from the refs.

[Buckeye in SC]

Originally Posted by Pug Life

Danny Granger: When people talk about the league's top-5 players, this guy NEVER enters into the conversation. HE SHOULD. Last season averages:
25.7 Points
5.1 Rebounds
2.7 Assists
1.0 Steals
1.4 Blocks.
Those are MVP numbers.

Those aren't MVP numbers when you have Lebron James putting up 28 PPG, 7.6 RPG, 7.3 APG & 1.7 SPG or DWade putting up 30 PPG, 5 RPG, 7.5 APG, & 2.2 SPG for teams that won 66 & 43 games respectively and led their teams to the playoffs.

Don't get me wrong, Granger is a fine player, but top 5 is a little high for him. Between Lebron, Kobe, DWade, DHoward & Chris Paul, you're telling me you'd take Granger over any of those 5? When he starts leading the Pacers to the playoffs, and his numbers get a little better, then you can mention him as a possible MVP canidate.

By the way, I tend to agree w/you about Dirk being overrated. He's a solid player, but he's made out to be a superstar when you hear him discussed regarding the NBA a lot.

[Trusses]

I forgot about Danny Granger, he is unbelievable. And like I said earlier, of course, Kevin Martin - he's no joke.

[urban analysis therapist]

Originally Posted by Pug Life

Both of them suck. Dirk can be easily dominated if you play defense on him, and he is streaky. Yao is 7'6 and yet he doesn't block that many shots, doesn't rebound that well and doesn't shoot at a really high % and turns the ball over a lot (6th in the league this year). After all, David Lee, Andris Biedrins, Nene, Shaq, Pao, Emeka and D-Howard all shoot better than him and are all 5 inches shorter than he is. Yao is pretty good, but he's never been able to stay healthy and he ALWAYS gets every call from the refs.

Sheesh. Talk about nit-picking. Oh no....Yao is "only" shooting 54.8%. What a chucker! Geez....give me a break!

Most of the other players you listed get much of their points off of dunks or strong at-basket finishes. Yao's a finesse player, albeit a really tall and strong finesse player, who can't move well. Name me another player who plays just like him and who shoots 55%, and I'll just run along.

Otherwise, your other points are valid. He's potentially done, and was always a foot injury waiting to happen. He's not a excellent shotblocker because of his short arms and slow, limited hops. He's not a great rebounder for the same reasons as well as always getting boxed out by smaller, more mobile big men. And he's turnover prone because he's constantly double-teamed, because he's very slow with or without the ball, and because he doesn't keep the ball high.

Does that make him overrated? No...we all know what we're getting from him at this point. A great offensive player whose post moves are rivaled by few (really Gasol and Al Jefferson at this point), whose shooting touch is matched by few (especially by few big men outside of Big Z), and a big presence in the middle on defense. We also know he's not mobile and quick enough to truly dominate all the time on offense (can't suddenly put on a David Robinson, a Hakeem, or even a Shaq show when his jumper is being challenged), not mobile enough to be a truly good defensive player, and an injury waiting to happen due to his size (think Ralph Sampson).

Which is why GM Daryl Morey, one of the smartest and cutting edge GMs in the business, has decided against building the Rockets completely around him as a "franchise player". Morey knows Yao isn't a "franchise player" of the likes of MJ, Kobe, Magic, et. al. It also doesn't hurt to know that he's so injury prone for that to be a good idea. FWIW, Morey thinks of Yao as a solid stepping stone in the right direction - not quite good enough to win as the sole "franchise player", but an excellent second banana. That's how I see it, anyway.



As for Dirk....he is kinda overrated if you consider that Cuban basically handed the whole franchise to him to lead as their "franchise player". He's absolutely awful in clutch situations, and as you mentioned, he can be bullied by smaller and more physical players. Not to mention, of course, his unbelievably bad defense. But 27 ppg isn't bad by any stretch, especially if it comes with 48% FG% and 89% FT%, 8 RPG, and some decent 3 point shooting. And don't forget that he went to the Finals a few years back, though he sunk to the occasion.

Basically, Cuban kinda wishes he didn't pay so much to so many crappy centers and big men, and that he gave Steve Nash the contract he deserved. Dirk just isn't the right player to carry the team on his back.


BTW, Granger as a top 5 player? You know, there was once a player who averaged one season:
29.8 PPG
3.9 RPG
5.1 APG
1.2 Steals
.7 Blocks

And like Granger's Pacers, his team finished well below .500.

His name?

Jerry Stackhouse of the 00-01 Pistons. There's some MVP numbers for ya to consider.

[mattyj46]

Originally Posted by Pug Life

As a Warriors fan, I HATE John Starks because of how bad he was when he was on our roster.

Underrated players:

Ramon Sessions: Anyone who can dish out 24 dimes in a game and STILL be a possible D-Leaguer the next season is underrated to me. Not only that, but he had 16 games last year where he did not turn the ball over once, tallying 53 assists in those games.

.

+1

Gotta root for my boy out of the U of Nevada, strangly enough he is still a free agent I believe, a real buy for any team.

[Canes2006Champs]

Also want to add in Ray Allen doesn't seem to get a lot of love, so I'll choose him. Manu Ginobli is another, he's valuable to the Spurs.

Originally Posted by urban analysis therapist

As for Dirk....he is kinda overrated if you consider that Cuban basically handed the whole franchise to him to lead as their "franchise player". He's absolutely awful in clutch situations,
Basically, Cuban kinda wishes he didn't pay so much to so many crappy centers and big men, and that he gave Steve Nash the contract he deserved. Dirk just isn't the right player to carry the team on his back.

I disagree, he's had more than a fair share of game winners. About the franchise player comment, once Nash and Finley left, Dirk pretty much became the leader, it wan't like DeSagana Diop was going to take that role.

[urban analysis therapist]

Originally Posted by Canes2006Champs

Also want to add in Ray Allen doesn't seem to get a lot of love, so I'll choose him. Manu Ginobli is another, he's valuable to the Spurs.

Manu, when healthy and in playing shape, is perhaps the deadliest clutch player out there.

And Ray Allen is one of the most methodical and most hardworking players in the league - he has to be, since he has OCD.

Originally Posted by Canes2006Champs

I disagree, he's had more than a fair share of game winners. About the franchise player comment, once Nash and Finley left, Dirk pretty much became the leader, it wan't like DeSagana Diop was going to take that role.

Check the "clutch" stats of various players here:

Sortable NBA Player Clutch stats

He and Jason Terry are supposed to be Dallas' "clutch" players, so either he or Terry are going to shoot the potentially game-winning shot. Basically, it's the law of averages - if he keeps shooting potentially game-winning shots, he's bound to make some.

But as we see in the 82 games "clutch" stats, he's only shooting ~40% in the last 5 minutes of the game, well below his normal 48% FG%. And guess what? His "game-winning" FG% are even worse:

NBA Game Winning Shots -- leading players

But to be fair, plenty of players are even worse than him in this stat category - guys like KG, Wade, and even Kobe. Even Lebron isn't much better than him FG%-wise. But plenty are better than him as well. The fact is that it's not a great stat: too few situations, and the players almost invariably shoot under the heaviest defensive pressure possible.

So I'm going to stick with the "clutch" stats as my baseline for the argument - it's spread over the last 5 minutes, so the deviations even out better. And these "clutch" stats tell me that Dirk isn't very clutch at all.

[Lancet71]

ANDRIS BIEDRINS.Guy gets a double double just about every game for my Warriors and no EVER mentions his name!He also is a solid defensive player.

[Trusses]

Although most nba fans know how good he is, I still dont think Chauncey Billups gets enough recognition. He is clutch and the MVP of the Pistons and the Nuggets. Look at how good the Nuggets got with him now.

[urban analysis therapist]

^ Check the "clutch" stats from the link in my post above. He's only shooting ~40% from the field in "clutch" situations. Granted, it's not much worse than his normal 42% from the field, but it still doesn't make him clutch.

Great leader and the stabilizing force that got the Nuggets where they ended up? Undoubtedly. But still, definitely not clutch.