Kobe haters are funny. (Champion, Magic, Lakers, Nuggets)

[urban analysis therapist]

Originally Posted by Black Jack22

Absolute cheap shots, talking a series which has no relevance to today.

What does Lebron have to do to be successful. He has not been as successful as Kobe.

Well you did not have to watch Kobe's documentary, did you?

Talk about him winning the MVP or the fact that his team reached the NBA Finals last year. Just harp about his inperfections.

Kobe does not have to please you nor prove anything to you no more than my a$$ has to.

He is a great player.

YOU DON'T LIKE KOBE. IT'S THAT SIMPLE.

What you are doing, is that you are trying to border along that hate-love boundary with Kobe by saying how you hated Jordan. I can still see through your hatred of that guy. So buy not explicitly saying that you hate Kobe, you can hide your true dislike for him.

In music especially jazz, aspiring jazz musicians "mimic" or imitate their favorite players. Kobe learned from the best. Nothing wrong with it.

If Kobe wins a championship, you will have nothing else to say. Because that is the only way that you will give him any credit.

Comparing him to Jordan is so unfair by saying how Kobe has to do this or that to be like Jordan. No one not even Lebron will live up to Jordan. Compare Kobe to players of today.

The Lakers lost last year's finals, not Kobe. Kobe would be 4 out of 6 if he wins this year and guess what...............Lebron would be 0 for 1 or 0 for 2.

After reading your post, it's pretty evident that you will support Kobe no matter what. So I can't really argue with you because your mind is already set and rigid.

I mean, you imply that I believe Lebron is better than Kobe and is more of a 'true winner', when I didn't even bring up Lebron at all in my posts. I mentioned King Krab absolutely, positively zero times in all of my posts on this thread. So why bring him up at all when you're replying to my post?

Yes, I have mentioned Lebron in other threads, but my admiration for him is more on the lines of his potential. I mean, this is a guy who's bigger than Karl Malone but who moves maybe even faster than Bo Jackson. How can you not believe great things are in store for him, especially with the way he's been playing as of late? Kobe will remain fantastically inventive in coming up with new moves and ways to maximize his body, but he's also 31years old with 13 seasons to date.

And when I mentioned I hated Jordan, I didn't say anything about hating him now. I love His Airness nowadays in retrospect, and a small part of me wishes that I had appreciated him more back in the day. But my blinding hate for how he dismantled my Knicks teams back in the day, as well as pretty much any other team that got in his way, prevented me from truly acknowledging his greatness.

As for "greatness" - I skimmed around the definition, but I'll be explicit here. I believe "greatness" leads a player to play for one thing, and one thing only - winning, and winning a championship at that. I admire those in the league who put their minds forth to that pursuit will always win my admiration. Even those who fail to win it, but who gut it out during the pursuit will win my admiration. See the example of Steve Nash insisting on playing through despite a cut on his nose that wouldn't stop bleeding, courtesy of Tony Parker's head. For the counter-example, see Wilt Chamberlain asking to be taken out of the deciding game against the Celtics due to a mild injury.

As for Kobe - I honestly don't think he has singleforthly put his mind to winning a championship over his whole career. Yes, this season, he has commited to winning a championship. But in previous seasons, he put winning a scoring title, albeit on a bad team, over promoting a true team approach towards going for a title. And in seasons before that, he was more concerned about fighting Shaq for alpha-dog status on the Lakers. Honestly, if he really wanted to win championships, he and Shaq would have never broken up - they were one of the most devastating combos the league has ever seen.

So to give another example of gutting it out to win - Kobe playing with a broken pinky on his shooting hand. What an unbelievably incredibly tough move by an incredibly tough player. He honestly does want that championship this season, no doubt about it. But to me, his motivation for winning it doesn't come from the simple pursuit to win at all costs, but rather, it comes from the pursuit of a certain other player's legacy (or the cementing of his own legacy).

It's not a wrong move, by any means. As you mentioned, why not try to imitate the greatest player ever? But it's not a pursuit that I can truly admire - I really do want for Kobe to be his own player. If you call it "Kobe Hate", so be it. Just don't confuse it with the genuine hate I had for MJ back in the day.



As for your 'jazz analogy' - I was a huge self-read student in Jazz for several years. One of the premises during jam sessions was that, yes, mimicry was flattery, but creativity and evolution were much more highly valued. While Charlie Parker quoted Louis Armstrong's solo in West End Blues in his solo in Cheryl, he certainly didn't copy Mr. Armstrong's style of play. Rather, Parker's style came from multiple influences, from Coleman Hawkins to Lester Young to even classical composers like Arnold Schoenberg (Bird loved his classical music records). But all in all, he made that distinct style - signature Bird licks, that hard yet sweet vibrato-less sound - his own. And more importantly, it wasn't just original for the sake of being original; it was actually some damn good music (as opposed to today's American Idol, which seeks musicians to make cover versions of pop songs 'their own', but usually at the cost of good music).

And imitators like Sonny Stitt and Cannonball Adderley only had to feel the wrath and burden of critics and fans who saw them as Parker imitators to realize they had to strike their own paths. They needed to figure out how to become their own players, and escape from the shadow of Parker.

[Black Jack22]

Originally Posted by McGowdog

I don't know if Kobe is a rapist or not. I wasn't there. But I know people in law who had heard about the proceedings in that case and the way the defense attorneys went after that girl sounded pretty spookey.

If you're a Kobe fan or a non-Kobe hater, it's pretty easy to just dispell it as just accusations of a confused and mentally unstable girl. I don't know.

But I'd say there are some Kobe haters out there that are NOT so "funny".

I guess Karma will tell. When Kobe gets a ring without Shaq, he'll have something to be proud of.

I do think his efforts on the court are impressive and his leadership qualities are vastly improved. And that's from a non-Kobe fan. I'm not a Kobe-hater to be for sure. I don't know the details of what went down in Eagle and all that. I honestly don't. But I just don't think he's of the same character of say a Magic Johnson.

After all this time your post has clear doubts of whether Kobe raped the girl or not.

The dumb bimbo is and was mentally unstable.

She pulled out of the case after getting her money. Had sex with 3 men after she had sex with Kobe. There were no vaginal lacerations ect.

She has had episodes of psychotic behavior in the past.

Kobe just had sex with the wrong person at the wrong time and it cost him.

By now though, her family and friends know that Kobe did not do it.

[Mathguy]

Originally Posted by Scott Summers

Spurs fan, huh? Kobe's swagger get to you but he it really isn't being cocky if he knows he can back it up. Five years ago you would have taken Kobe straight up for Ginobili and Parker. You being a Spurs fan you should realize that Kobe is top 20 all time (dare I say top 10?).

To be honest, I can't put Kobe top 10.
He has had 2 years of his career at his current level of performance (arguably best in the league) but the earlier years he was one of the best but not clearly the best. (Check his shooting percentages as one example)

I'd put Duncan ahead of him by a little bit just to name a guy from his era.
From the Jordan era I would put Jordan and Olajuwon ahead of Kobe for sure...some others you could argue about.

Let's see him hoist a championship without Shaq and then we can talk.

To be honest, I *like* Kobe. Probably the part that I found irritating was all the casual Laker fans that credited him with championships and said he was "better than Shaq" which was only true the last year Shaq was there and out of shape. Look at the 76ers final...Shaq DOMINATED and Kobe and the others fed off the easy scraps. (Just like in Orlando)

[Speedaddicted]

Originally Posted by Scott Summers

Okay I realize that Kobe isn't well liked but why? I have to battle against this nonsense a lot when I'm talking basketball. Here are some reasons that the Kobe Haters come up with:
*He's arrogant (what player isn't? NEXT)
*He got rid of Shaq (No he didn't)
*He doesn't respect the game (LOL)
*He thinks he's better than Jordan (he admires Jordan).
*He's a dirty player (Stop please).


Some people don't even know why they hate the guy and come up with stuff off the court like:
*He's a bad person (so you talk to Kobe enough to know?).
*He cheated on his wife, Jordan would never...(SLAP).
*He tries too hard (How would you know?)
*He grew up with the silver spoon. He didn't work for anything (check the children of any current player and tell me they aren't well off).

Kobe haters are a funny breed to me, they can't stand it that this guy's a student of the game and sees nothing but success at whatever he does. I realize that they just hate it that their favorite player is beneath Kobe in skill and success but is it Kobe's fault? I enjoy watching the guy play and get tired of hearing folks just kill the guy for his style of play and tear him down for anything and everything he does on the court. I watch basketball a lot and the Kobe haters would say something stupid "Why did Kobe take that fade away? Luke "F*ckin" Walton's a beast, he should get the ball." Kobe haters just don't realize greatness when they see it (same with Lebron and Dwade haters).

I think the real source of the hate is:
*He's too good, I wish he was on my team.

It sounds good in theory, but do you know him well enough personally to say any of these acusations are wrong????

[Speedaddicted]

Originally Posted by Black Jack22

After all this time your post has clear doubts of whether Kobe raped the girl or not.

The dumb bimbo is and was mentally unstable.

She pulled out of the case after getting her money. Had sex with 3 men after she had sex with Kobe. There were no vaginal lacerations ect.

She has had episodes of psychotic behavior in the past.

Kobe just had sex with the wrong person at the wrong time and it cost him.

By now though, her family and friends know that Kobe did not do it.

^^ Off course there werent he poked her in the A$$!

[McGowdog]

Ouch!!!!!! I HATE when that happens!

Besides that, I was saying I didn't like what Kobe's lawyers put her through. None of us know what happened that night anyway, but at very least, it could give you a reason to "hate" Kobe... the whole point of this thread.

[Scott Summers]

Originally Posted by Speedaddicted

It sounds good in theory, but do you know him well enough personally to say any of these acusations are wrong????

I will be honest and say that I don't like everything that Kobe does but I don't think it damages him. If I had the mentality of a KB hater and focused on "The Goldenboy Savior" I can actually come up with a huge bogus list of things, for right now my complaint is he gets too much respect...but that's he's not Kobe. A lot of the cries from the haters are just empty to me it doesn't hold much weight to me. I get that Kobe may be an arrogant jerk on the court and but so was the Beloved Larry Bird. I see how some can dislike some things about him but my point is hating a part of something shouldn't really take away from the whole. I don't know what happened and all in that hotel room I don't think he's that dumb to force himself on the girl, but if he did then I'd admit that he's a bad guy. I dont think U.A. Therapist is one of those blind Kobe discreditors but some of his beefs are legit so I have no problem. To me, Speed, it seems that you hate the guy for something that only two people know but I know that you can't hate his playing style (which is better than P-Double's).

[Speedaddicted]

I dont hate him nor do I hate Lebron, I'm just not walking around slobbing his knob like he's the best thing since sliced bread. He's one of if not the most talented players in the game but he is not on the same level as players like MJ, Magic, Kareem, Russell etc. Everyone points at the 3 championships, but he wasnt the catalyst of any of those teams, and since he was made "THE MAN" he hasnt lead the Lakers to the title. He might this year, but thats yet to be seen.

My point is this. You shoot down the haters theories because none of them know Kobe , but neither do you to disprove them so thats a mute point.

That said, Go Chicken Nuggets and Magic!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Speedaddicted]

In the statement issued later, Bryant said: "First, I want to apologize directly to the young woman involved in this incident. I want to apologize to her for my behavior that night and for the consequences she has suffered in the past year. ... Although I truly believe this encounter between us was consensual, I recognize now that she did not and does not view this incident the same way I did."

^^ I've never ever had an encounter with a women that wasnt crystal clear as to what was consentual and what wasnt. Not that that matters to the Kobe worshipers but just point out a fact.

[urban analysis therapist]

Originally Posted by Speedaddicted

I've never ever had an encounter with a women that wasnt crystal clear as to what was consentual and what wasnt. Not that that matters to the Kobe worshipers but just point out a fact.

The problem with rape accusations is that....a good chunk of them are bogus. Like completely bogus.

- one type of accusation might be, say, a girl gets drunk and haves sex with a guy....only when she wakes up and sobers up, she has no idea whose bed she's in, how she got there, why she's naked, and why there's a naked dude next to her. So she accuses him of raping her when it was actually consensual at that time; the two just happened to be drunk off their rockers.
- another type might be another consensual situation, only without anybody being drunk. The sex is completely consensual. But maybe the girl didn't have such a good experience. Or maybe the dude said something wrong to her Whatever it is, she talks herself into believing the guy forced himself on her and raped her, and presses charges against him.

These rape accusations occur in date-rape situations in which no date-rape has actually occurred. The women in these situations have simply been led to believe that 'rape' happens frequently, and that men are always looking to force themselves onto women. It's a feminist-outlook on sex - to these feminists, rapes happen all the time. So not surprisingly, these 'rape' charges are pressed most frequently by college students on campus.

Unfortunately, these 'date-rapes' become part of the same statistic as, you know, actual rapes. In these "actual rapes", the rape is a violent gesture by men meant to show dominance over women. These women are battered and scarred for life, and are sometimes killed in the acts.

In other words, those so called 'date-rapes' that aren't actually rapes totally marginalize the victims of actual violent rapes by increasing the statistics of the number of women who are raped. They simply become another statistic of the supposed thousands 'raped', and their voices become drowned out as those accusing bogus rapes gain strength in numbers.

You can read more here in this piece by Heather MacDonald in City Journal:

The Campus Rape Myth by Heather Mac Donald, City Journal Winter 2008