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Old 06-06-2010, 09:03 AM
 
Location: Earth
3,652 posts, read 4,681,082 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pacmanKO24 View Post
.He would have averaged 40 points a game. He was already putting up 20-25 points just by playing 15 to 20 minutes at age 19.
LMAO 40 a game lol. For the record, at 19 he averaged 15.4 ppg in 26 minutes a night.
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Old 06-08-2010, 12:00 AM
 
25 posts, read 55,394 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg1977 View Post
LMAO 40 a game lol. For the record, at 19 he averaged 15.4 ppg in 26 minutes a night.
When I had mentioned that "He was already putting up 20-25 points just by playing 15 to 20 minutes at age 19" I was pointing out that he did have those numbers during that season. I wasn't saying he averaged that much and for an offense performance 15.4 ppg is actually quite high considering for his first season the offense was designed to go into shaq for bulk of the scoring.
The argument should actually be that Jordan was at a great advantage being that he didn't have to play with any great(Dominating Centers) giving him the opportunity to average such high numbers. If you take shaq at his prime and pair him with a rookie Michael Jordan and still think Jordan would be putting up those same numbers you are saddly mistaken.
The truth is players Like Jordan, Kobe, etc. Are only as good as they are because of having the opportunity to go through there selfish phases to hone there skills on the court. Team sports in general do not encourage individual players to go out and ball hog and steal the spot light. Having the greenlight by your coach and team mates to put up as many shots as you want is very rare and only few players have had the chance to actually pull that off consistently.
Sure individual player achievements are celebrated in the nba however in the end championships are what it boils down to and that is a team effort.
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Old 06-10-2010, 02:37 AM
 
Location: Tha 6th Bourough
3,633 posts, read 5,771,086 times
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Wade blocks Amare and shoots a half court shot and makes it!!!!!!!! Let's see Lebron do this or win an NBA championship!!!


YouTube - Wade block and half court shot
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Old 06-10-2010, 02:55 AM
 
Location: Austin, TX/Chicago, IL/Houston, TX/Washington, DC
10,138 posts, read 15,955,399 times
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One of my top 3 favorite players- Tracy McGrady at his prime:

YouTube - Tracy McGrady 13 Points In 35 Seconds

Just love the guy, no matter how he's playing right now, he made himself into a great player to be remembered!
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Old 06-10-2010, 05:48 AM
 
Location: Earth
3,652 posts, read 4,681,082 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pacmanKO24 View Post
The argument should actually be that Jordan was at a great advantage being that he didn't have to play with any great(Dominating Centers) giving him the opportunity to average such high numbers. If you take shaq at his prime and pair him with a rookie Michael Jordan and still think Jordan would be putting up those same numbers you are saddly mistaken.

Obviously not, at no point have I said that. But would Jordan have averaged more than the 7 points Kobe did as a rookie? Ummm.... yeah, because rookie Jordan was miles better than rookie Kobe. You're sadly mistaken if you think rookie Jordan would have rode the bench like Kobe did.

The truth is players Like Jordan, Kobe, etc. Are only as good as they are because of having the opportunity to go through there selfish phases to hone there skills on the court. Team sports in general do not encourage individual players to go out and ball hog and steal the spot light. Having the greenlight by your coach and team mates to put up as many shots as you want is very rare and only few players have had the chance to actually pull that off consistently.

Basketball is different from other team sports, in that a single player can be dominant enough to make you team a contender. It's always been that way.


Sure individual player achievements are celebrated in the nba however in the end championships are what it boils down to and that is a team effort.

Indeed, but all players on a team are not created equal. If you have 2 or 3 players on your team that are better than the rest, than you ride those players and have the lesser players fill their roles around them. Yes its a team sport, but do you think the Bulls would have won if you gave Jordan and Will Perdue equal shots in the name of teamplay?
Response in bold.
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Old 06-10-2010, 10:52 AM
 
79 posts, read 237,374 times
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Ray Allens 3 point shooting in the nba finals against the lakers was pretty spectacular however Derek Fisher's 4th quarter heroics was monumental in sealing game 3 for the lakers. We'll excitement see what happens 2nite in game 4!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBDjWo_eDTY
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Old 06-10-2010, 11:07 AM
 
Location: Austin, TX/Chicago, IL/Houston, TX/Washington, DC
10,138 posts, read 15,955,399 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curiosa View Post
Ray Allens 3 point shooting in the nba finals against the lakers was pretty spectacular however Derek Fisher's 4th quarter heroics was monumental in sealing game 3 for the lakers. We'll excitement see what happens 2nite in game 4!!!!

YouTube - 06-08-2010 - Finals - Game 3 - Lakers vs. Celtics - Derek Fisher Emotional Postgame Interview (HD)
Oh man tonight is going to be EPIC, simply because Garnett seems to have gotten his momentum back (hopefully he can keep it), Paul Pierce got his game back (except he had problems with foul trouble), Rondo will be aggressive, and I know Ray Allen has been working hard on getting himself back to the usuals.

Anyways with all that said, Lakers!
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Old 06-11-2010, 11:50 AM
 
24 posts, read 44,727 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg1977 View Post
Response in bold.
Yeah I agree with pacaman on this. When it comes down to being a rookie, Jordan did have a stellar season in comparison to bryant however Jordan had no other top notch scorers on that bulls team during his rookie season. Bryant on the other hand was drafted onto an already established Lakers starting lineup under Phil Jackson.

Jordan entered his rookie season in the league as a starter and that was not under Phil Jackson. Phil Jackson does not place rookie players as starting guards regardless of how hyped the talent. Andrew Bynum is another example of a blossoming player under phil jackson who had limited minutes during his rookie season.

Like pacaman mentioned, the correct observation would be to
have Bryant trade places with Jordan under the exact same circumstances to see how many points and how dominant jordan would be straight out of highschool at age 19 that same year with shaq and Phil Jackson coming off the bench. Keep in mind jordan was not averaging as many points as bryant in highschool and was also cut from the varsity team so Bryant at age 19 was better than jordan at age 19 and during jordan's college years Jordan did not average more than 20 points a game.The same for Kobe, if he went to college and was drafted onto that same bulls team under coach Kevin Loughery with that same starting lineup, Bryant would probably have put up as high numbers as Jordan did. Keep in mind that Bulls team won only 28 games the previous season so Bryant would more than likely have started for that same chicago bulls team.

In my opinion, comparison's between athletes during different eras is a paradox. Michael Jordan is currently the greatest nba player in the history of the game and was the best player during his time in the nba (excluding wizards come back) Kobe Bryant is currently the best player in the league today and as far as the history of the nba? We'll visit that question 5-6 years from now when Bryant's retired.
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Old 06-11-2010, 12:09 PM
 
Location: Earth
3,652 posts, read 4,681,082 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scarling View Post
Yeah I agree with pacaman on this. When it comes down to being a rookie, Jordan did have a stellar season in comparison to bryant however Jordan had no other top notch scorers on that bulls team during his rookie season. Bryant on the other hand was drafted onto an already established Lakers starting lineup under Phil Jackson.

So you're telling me rookie Michael Jordan would have rode the bench on the Lakers? And you're wrong, Phil Jackson joined the Lakers in 1999, 3 years AFTER Kobe was drafted.

Jordan entered his rookie season in the league as a starter and that was not under Phil Jackson. Phil Jackson does not place rookie players as starting guards regardless of how hyped the talent. Andrew Bynum is another example of a blossoming player under phil jackson who had limited minutes during his rookie season.

Phil Jackson wasn't the Lakers coach when Kobe was drafted, it was ( I believe) Del Harris. So this is completely irrelevant. Not only that, but everytime Phil Jackson has taken over a team, he's had Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant on that team at the guard positions. Exactly who is going to start over the 2 greatest shooting guards ever?


Like pacaman mentioned, the correct observation would be to
have Bryant trade places with Jordan under the exact same circumstances to see how many points and how dominant jordan would be straight out of highschool at age 19 that same year with shaq and Phil Jackson coming off the bench.

Would he have averaged 28 a game like he did with Shaq? No. Would he have rode the bench like Kobe did? No. He likely would have started at the 2, and Eddie Jones move to the 3, with Van Exel at the point. And how can I say that with certainty? The starting forward when Kobe came in was Rick Fox. Think Jordan wouldn't have made the starting lineup? Yeah right.....



Keep in mind jordan was not averaging as many points as bryant in highschool and was also cut from the varsity team so Bryant at age 19 was better than jordan at age 19 and during jordan's college years Jordan did not average more than 20 points a game.

Jordan played in a system that promoted teamplay over individualistic play. Why do you think nobody knew Jordan was 'that' good coming out of college? Because he wasn't in a system that allowed his individual talents to be on display.


The same for Kobe, if he went to college and was drafted onto that same bulls team under coach Kevin Loughery with that same starting lineup, Bryant would probably have put up as high numbers as Jordan did.

We have no way of knowing that.

Keep in mind that Bulls team won only 28 games the previous season so Bryant would more than likely have started for that same chicago bulls team.

In my opinion, comparison's between athletes during different eras is a paradox. Michael Jordan is currently the greatest nba player in the history of the game and was the best player during his time in the nba (excluding wizards come back) Kobe Bryant is currently the best player in the league today and as far as the history of the nba? We'll visit that question 5-6 years from now when Bryant's retired.

Jordan played recently enough, (in 2003) to have some kind of accurate gauge as to how he'd be in his prime. 40 year old Michael Jordan averaged 20,5,4 with tendinitis in both knees, a surgically repaired shooting hand, and half the athleticism he once had, and was retired for 3 years prior to that. And he was still among the top 15 players in the league.At 40. You don't think 28 year old Michael Jordan would dominate today? Please, he'd average 35 in his sleep with today's defensive rules.
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Old 06-11-2010, 04:04 PM
 
Location: ☀ ѕυnѕнιne ѕтaтe ☀
1,416 posts, read 3,199,259 times
Reputation: 253
Tracy McGrady
YouTube - Tracy McGrady 62 points vs Wizards (03.10.04)
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