Private Water Supply on BI (loan, high school, price)

[OpenD]

Originally Posted by henry1

Thanks for the info on the rain catchment system for use with the house and iam trying to figure out a couple more things to get them right the first time and not spend more money than i need ...

Thank you Henry. That's useful info and thought provoking. I'm going to look into that concept for my own place.

BTW, I stopped by the CTAHR office in Hilo today to pick up another copy of the Rainwater Catchment book, because I realized when I reached for it to check something for this thread that the friend who borrowed mine never returned it.

Boy was that a wonderful stop, because it is the same location as the County Extension Service, and I came away with all kinds of useful information, including lots on using native ground cover plants instead of grass for beautiful "lawns" that need no mowing or watering. And sources for native plants to beautify your place. They have useful info on all kinds of plant life, including best fruits, vegetable, ornamentals for the area... and also livestock. And they have a Master Gardener available 3 days a week to answer questions.

It's an excellent resource. www.ctahr.edu

[henry1]

it better to get out the stupid ideas now before i had to spend the money on the products and then find out that they did not work and i have send more money to fix the problem

[OpenD]

Here are a few of the things that pop out at me from the Firefighting Concerns section of the CTAHR handbook...

The National Fire Protection Association says that the average fire in a 1200 foot dwelling takes about 2,570 gallons of water to put out.

Kea'au has a 1,000 gallon tanker and a 1,000 gallon engine.
Hawi'ian Paradise Park has a 1,000g tanker, and volunteers have a 750g tanker
Ocean View volunteers have a 1,000g tanker
Volcano volunteers have a 500g tanker, with backup from the National Park

In other words, they all depend on being able to get water at the scene.

They recommend the tank on site have a standard 2 1/2" hose fitting so the fire hose can connect directly instead of having to siphon. Tank walls not over 5-6' tall if they do have to be siphoned. Above ground swimming pool walls can collapse unless you have a support structure provided for hoses.

They recommend the tank be in the front, be clear of brush, and be at least 50' from the house. Gate and driveway turns, if any, large enough to accommodate a big truck.

There's more... get the book, or download it free online.

Oh, interesting tidbit... if the FD uses water from your tank to fight your fire, they will refill it free afterwards.

[birdmove]

Some of the developements have piped in water that charge for the service. In HPP where our place is, it's catchment. We don't live there yet, but do short term rentals for vacationers and such, and we get over there whenever we can. Our place was built in 1996. we have the more common catchment tank that looks like galvanized aluminum, and then a replaceable liner. There are two replaceable filters in line. The coarse one is like a 30 micron, and the fine one is 5 or 10 micron. That's all yopu would need if you are not going to drink the water. Our place has a UV light to kill any little microscopic critters and is drinkable. The water tastes great. We also have a carport with gutters that adds that water to the catchment tank. Some use cement tanks or even plastic ones. You'll know when its time to replace the filters when you notice the water pressure gets low. Replace them as a set. It follows that having trees too close to the house will fill your gutters often. Our place uses little metal screen type round inserts that go into each opening for the gutter down tubes to keep the big stuff out. Some places have a "filter box" that has a replaceable screen to help filter the big stuff. Also, I've been told that you should add a cup of bleach to the tank maybe once a month.
If a person had solar panels enough to take care of their house, and water catchment, and cess pool or septic tank all at their house there wouldn't be too many monthly bills.

jon

[OpenD]

Originally Posted by birdmove

Our place was built in 1996. we have the more common catchment tank that looks like galvanized aluminum, and then a replaceable liner.

That's a steel tank, with a food grade vinyl liner.

Originally Posted by birdmove

There are two replaceable filters in line. The coarse one is like a 30 micron, and the fine one is 5 or 10 micron. That's all yopu would need if you are not going to drink the water.

WRONG! That's a common, but dangerous misconception. The problem with that thinking is that if you shower in water containing any of a number of disease microorganisms you can get eye infections, or worse from accidentally swallowing the water. Why take the chance when going ahead and fully sterilizing all the water isn't that hard or that expensive? See below.

Originally Posted by birdmove

Our place has a UV light to kill any little microscopic critters and is drinkable.

Yes, or or you can use an ozone generator purifier, or possibly the new .5 micron ceramic dome filter.

Originally Posted by birdmove

Also, I've been told that you should add a cup of bleach to the tank maybe once a month.

STOP! Go directly to the CTAHR handbook and very carefully read the section on adding chlorine. The main reason for adding chlorine is to combat infection from Leptospira, which is found in the urine of rats and mongooses and is a widespread hazard on the Big Island. Infection from this microorganism is primarily through small breaks in the skin, so even washing your hands or sitting in a tub in water contaminated with Leptospira puts you at risk.

Adding chlorine also has to be done more carefully than this common home-brew recipe to maintain a level that will be effective and yet be safe to your health. Household bleaches vary in content (and NEVER use pool chlorine!) so you are safest using solid bleach made for the purpose. You need to calculate the sodium hydroxide content needed per 1,000 gals to maintain a 1ppm level, and then use chlorine test kits available from the county to check it. Swimming pool test kits are not sensitive enough. And in general terms, the chlorine level has to be high enough to taste it to do any good. The only thing this method has going for it is that it's cheap.

But you do not need to add chlorine if you have a UV or ozone sterilizer, so in the case Jon mentioned the bleach is not necessary. But what you DO need to do in any case is add baking soda to neutralize the natural acidity of our rainwater. Otherwise metal plumbing valves and faucets corrode and fail quickly, and you can damage any metal objects that regularly make contact with the water, such as tableware and pots and pans. It's also rough on teeth. Here the home-brew recipe to add a box of bicarb a month is safe, but imprecise, and may not be enough to be effective. pH test strips can be used to check if you're in the good range.

Water safety with rainwater catchment is not hard, but it takes a little homework, and about 15 minutes of maintenance a month. Read the CTAHR book!

[WindRide]

I'm having a hard time coming up with any costs for a system. Any one have an idea of what a new food-grade liner for a 10,000 gal tank would cost? How about the filtration system?

I know that specific prices are difficult, but if I could get a ballpark that would be great.

Thanks!

[Jonah K]

Originally Posted by WindRide

I'm having a hard time coming up with any costs for a system. Any one have an idea of what a new food-grade liner for a 10,000 gal tank would cost? How about the filtration system?

I know that specific prices are difficult, but if I could get a ballpark that would be great.

Thanks!

Island Catchment and Waterworks can give you up-to-date prices for a food-grade liner and filtration system. Here are a couple of links...
ISLAND CATCHMENT - Creating Safe and Environmentally Responsible Water Systems Since 1970
Waterworks - Hot tubs, Pools and Watertanks in Hilo & Kona (http://www.waterworkshawaii.com/aboutwaterworks.html - broken link)

[WindRide]

Originally Posted by Jonah K

Island Catchment and Waterworks can give you up-to-date prices for a food-grade liner and filtration system. Here are a couple of links...
ISLAND CATCHMENT - Creating Safe and Environmentally Responsible Water Systems Since 1970
Waterworks - Hot tubs, Pools and Watertanks in Hilo & Kona (http://www.waterworkshawaii.com/aboutwaterworks.html - broken link)

Thank you so much!

[henry1]

here is a crazy idea about useing solar power to produce fresh water for your place if it close enough to the ocean to get a line into ocean ..

i was reading about a small box unit that make up to 5000 gallons of fresh water a day useing the sun as the power souce for the unit ..it a crazy idea i know but it worth a try for the group buy if we could find a piece of land to set it on close enough to the ocean to get the water from and then store in large tanks for the people to use in the village ..

i'm going to check on the price of the unit and if someone had land close enough to the ocean we could run the pipe out to the ocean and get the water from the unit after it be desalted and made be drinkable ..

[mdand3boys]

Originally Posted by henry1

here is a crazy idea about useing solar power to produce fresh water for your place if it close enough to the ocean to get a line into ocean ..

i was reading about a small box unit that make up to 5000 gallons of fresh water a day useing the sun as the power souce for the unit ..it a crazy idea i know but it worth a try for the group buy if we could find a piece of land to set it on close enough to the ocean to get the water from and then store in large tanks for the people to use in the village ..

i'm going to check on the price of the unit and if someone had land close enough to the ocean we could run the pipe out to the ocean and get the water from the unit after it be desalted and made be drinkable ..

henry1 - I wouldn't want to begin thinking about how many permits from how many different agencies you would need for that!