Looking at Pahoa (Hilo, Kealakekua, Fern Forest: tax lien, power lines, rent)

[Fredesch]

Hmmm, if the effluent isn't getting to the ocean, then it must be staying in Puna. So when neighbors complain about the smell from PGV, they are really just smelling Puna.

The big island only has ash and basalt, so filling the spaces between with effluent sounds like a ecological time bomb. The liquid may disappear from view, but it doesn't stop existing.

[CyberCity]

On Hawaii Island (and probably statewide) "Gang" cesspools have been ordered closed, but individual home cesspools are grandfathered in. If someone with a cesspool was to try to do a home addition, they should be prepared to have the question of requiring a septic system installed come up due to an increased demand on capacity.

Dry areas do not normally have cesspool problems, since the land is so porous. But if you live near the beach, that is a different story. I lived in Windward Oahu on the shore, and the cesspool literally overflowed when it was high tide. Yes, pollution of beach water is a concern in shore areas.

[hotzcatz]

Effluent breaks down with different bacteria and stuff. I forget the practical differences between aerobic and anaerobic microbes, but the folks breaking sewage down are concerned about the different types and prefer one to the other, I think. It would fertilize the soil after it's broken down so it's not exactly a time bomb.

If you could get enough of it in one spot, perhaps a bit of methane would be produced. Hmm, that could be interesting if the methane could be contained and if you could get enough of it. There were some folks trying to gather the methane from sewage to use to power an electrical generator, although the amount needed was more than one household would produce so their project never worked.

Moving to a really rural area allows folks to try all sorts of interesting things. I would suspect that many folks who plan on moving to Hawaii don't realize how rural this place is. Although it's getting more built up in spots now. Give it another couple of decades and we may have almost a city somewhere around here. Well, it will probably need more than a couple of decades for that, come to think of it.

[marty5245]

Originally Posted by fromthefigtree

I've never actually been to the Big Island. I am planning a trip in a few months to look into places I would like to live. So far, my budget has me looking to Pahoa, buying land, sending my husband there to build a 10 by 12 tiny house while I work from Sf Bay, Cali till I can save enough to move along with him (I make most of my money as an Herbalist, my husband is a former engineer but currently unemployed.) This of course will be an ongoing project. I am looking at Nanawale estates because they are so inexpensive. Which brings me to the question of how you can get a 1/2 acre lot for under $5,000 in Hawaii??

We have family in Oahu, but we just cannot afford that, nor do we want that much people around us. I have been to Kauai, Oahu and Maui, and love them all, but the prices of the big island in the Puna area are hard to resist. I also feel the need to get out of the big city, and into something more rural.

any suggestions!?

I live in Nanawale estates, it is pretty primitive in some respects, but I like it, have no idea what lots go for, some lots would take a lot of clearing of large trees, ect. It is not overly populated, has a lot of jungle in some of the more remote areas.

[Fredesch]

Originally Posted by hotzcatz

Effluent breaks down with different bacteria and stuff. I forget the practical differences between aerobic and anaerobic microbes, but the folks breaking sewage down are concerned about the different types and prefer one to the other, I think. It would fertilize the soil after it's broken down so it's not exactly a time bomb.

If you could get enough of it in one spot, perhaps a bit of methane would be produced. Hmm, that could be interesting if the methane could be contained and if you could get enough of it. There were some folks trying to gather the methane from sewage to use to power an electrical generator, although the amount needed was more than one household would produce so their project never worked.

Moving to a really rural area allows folks to try all sorts of interesting things. I would suspect that many folks who plan on moving to Hawaii don't realize how rural this place is. Although it's getting more built up in spots now. Give it another couple of decades and we may have almost a city somewhere around here. Well, it will probably need more than a couple of decades for that, come to think of it.

Anaerobic environments are oxygen poor, aerobic environments have more oxygen available. Organic matter may not beak down in anaerobic environments and can hang around for thousands of years.

Areas like Nanawale have too small of lots to not have a sewer system. Existing cesspools in areas like these will be a health threat for decades. I don't think the geology of Hawaii magically helps get rid of disease, viruses and other bad stuff that end up in cesspools.

[OpenD]

Originally Posted by Fredesch

Areas like Nanawale have too small of lots to not have a sewer system. Existing cesspools in areas like these will be a health threat for decades. I don't think the geology of Hawaii magically helps get rid of disease, viruses and other bad stuff that end up in cesspools.

I agree, and so does the EPA, but who's going to pay for it? Digging trenches for sewer lines through lava rock... just to name one component... seems like a massive expense, but there's no tax base for it. One of the weaknesses of the Hawaiian governmental system is that anything local is a matter for county government, and they're ill equipped to deal with infrastructure issues in rural areas.

The Catch 22 here is that there are too many people living in the area to keep pouring their waste into the cracks and fissures and lava tubes, but not enough to pay for an urban style solution.

What some have had to do is install lined cesspits, which are just holding tanks that must be periodically pumped out by "honeydipper" trucks. Another option is above-ground septic systems that use aerobic digesters. Neither is very satisfactory. I think it's time for a technological breakthrough...

[Fredesch]

Practically, the best you can hope for is holding tanks, or lined cesspits as you call them. A HOA could build a water and sewer system if they wish and put in the infrastructure that should have been in place when subdivision happened. But since folks go there for cheap land and not because there is county water and sewer available, it is unlikely they will vote to put in the infrastructure and pay for it.

[OpenD]

Originally Posted by Fredesch

A HOA could build a water and sewer system if they wish and put in the infrastructure that should have been in place when subdivision happened.

That's unlikely. Tap into the local discussions and you'll find they can't even get agreement on fixing pukas in the roads, or paving the gravel roads to reduce dust, etc. and collecting assessments from owners has very low compliance. It's still the wild west in many significant ways.

[davephan]

Originally Posted by hotzcatz

For what it's worth, I think the return to the point of origin percentage is much higher for folks who buy sight unseen. Until folks visit and get a feel for the place, they can make some horrendous mistakes. If one is merely renting, relocation is easy enough. If one has ended up somewhere inappropriate and has bought the place, relocating is a bit more difficult.

I think people who end up moving to Hawaii and staying for only one or two years is so common in Hawaii because those people are not willing or cannot afford to pay the price to properly research the move. It could easily cost $10K to $20K for visiting Hawaii several times using vacation rentals at $1K or more per week. After the vacation visits, it could cost another $20K to $30K to rent for a year, plus at least another $10K for the move. You have to be willing and able to pay that price to reduce the risk of making a very bad major financial decision of buying a home in Hawaii. The same thing would apply to moving across the country, but the risks are higher in Hawaii because of the extreme isolation from the mainland and the extreme differences from the mainland. If you're younger, still in your working years, the risk of making a mistake is much higher. If you're young with kids, even more risk. If you're net worth is high enough, you can afford to pay the price to reduce the risk of making a bad decision, and have enough money to pay the higher price to live in paradise.

Although, even after all that research and money spent, you could still discover Hawaii is not for you. But at least you did it the right way and reduced the risk of making a life changing financial hit in your life.

Back to pets. When I was growing up in Minneapolis, we were baby sat by an old lady that lived a couple blocks away from our home. My dad rented her garage for decades to store raw materials used for carpentry jobs. Many years later, the old lady died, and her children inherted the house. One day, I happened to drive by the property that I drove by many times for years before. I was shocked! The house and the garage were gone! It was just an empty lot where there used to be a house and a detached garage. I found out later why the house and garage were torn down. The children rented the house to people that owned dogs. The dogs pooped and peed in the basement. The renters kept putting layers of newspapers on top of of poop and pee all winter. The dogs never went outside and the renters never cleaned up the mess. I don't know how the people could stand living in a house with all that smell! Maybe they kept the windows open all winter and did not have to pay the heating bill. It turned out that the old lady's children lost everything. Years later, the city sold the empty lot to someone else that built a new house on that lot.

All people are not the same. Some people live their lives in very abnormal and irresponsible ways that is totally foreign to 'normal', responsible people. The landlord's are forced into having the 'no pets' rules because of the reckless, irresponsible, and screwed up people out there.

[smarino]

I'm sorry, but I disagree w/ the pet thing. Hawaii is anti pet. Period. I lived in Hilo and Kea'au many, many years and almost never, ever saw someone w/ their pet in the car w/ them, or strolling downtown w/ one. It just does not happen. Here in South Daytona they are everywhere. In the car, on restaurant decks, seniors push their senior pets around in strollers, etc. People love their animals here, and treat them like family, which they are. The idea that anyone here would not allow you to have a pet is a total non starter, and it's this way in every place we've lived (except Hawaii). At least you do understand that the problem is from the human companions, not the pets. But hey, it's Hawaii! They can and will limit things just because they can.

I remember when my now wife and I were looking for a rental while she was selling her home in Hilo. The rental agencies insisted that she have rental history, even though she had perfect credit. Owning her home for 20 years counted for nothing. No rental history, no rental for her. Totally off the wall business people there. They have a lot of demand, so they can be ridiculous. One guy wouldn't rent to us because my wife's teenage son was w/ us. I tried to explain that he was an honor student at St. Joseph. It didn't matter, he was afraid there would be a lot of teenagers around. Wow, what an idiot. As for pet damage, there's something called a damage deposit, along w/ pet deposits to cover all that. Imagine! What a concept. And you can always ask to inspect the rental now and then to ck on things. Anyone ever hear of that? We finally had to give the dog away to someone else because no one would rent to us w/ him. I'm surprised we didn't have to do the same w/ her son!