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Willowkim, Thank you, thank you, thank you for the seriously helpful post. So many of the posts were leaving me feeling deflated but yours helped me see that while there will be challenges that this possible move has many pluses. The picnics on the beach as everyone heads home is exactly what we are after. Our twins were three when we lived in South Florida and we would hit the beach late afternoon and early morning - I too would dodge out of direct sun during the midday as well. Perhaps we will check out Kona as my husband wishes for less rain.
The not wanting to cook dinner and heat up the house I fully get. We plan on not cooking much at all - do you find yourself living produce heavy with all the fresh produce in the area? I could get by on fruits, nuts, veggies and peanut butter sandwiches 90% of the time. Do you grill outside often to avoid heating up the house with the stove?
What language does your husband program in? Has he had any difficulties with the speed or reliability of the internet? Does he manage to program very early in the morning? My husband reckons he will try and start his day around 4 am to free up the day for other activities.
What are the odds of meeting another SAHM who is choosing to homeschool with a hubby in IT that has already taken the big leap we are researching? If this move flies I would love to get together and grab lunch! I think we would get along quite well also. How is Kona for overall ease of life on things like hitting the library, grabbing a coffee with a friend, grocery shopping for good produce etc? I know you said traffic can get tough but does it literally deter you from heading out the door at times?
Aaahh sorry!! If I am overwhelming you with too many questions it is simply because you are the first person that seems to get where I am coming from. A final thanks for being kind enough to put together such a fabulous post. I shall keep you posted on our progress.
KaraBenNemsi, I am seriously going to have an exit strategy in place before getting on the plane. My husband is in IT and this field can be very unpredictable so we will double up on our emergency funds for sure. I am glad that you and your wife and kids are doing ok - five intense, expensive years is long enough to struggle. Thanks for the reality check - we will not enter into this lightly.
The picnics on the beach as everyone heads home is exactly what we are after. Our twins were three when we lived in South Florida and we would hit the beach late afternoon and early morning - I too would dodge out of direct sun during the midday as well. Perhaps we will check out Kona as my husband wishes for less rain.
I would definitely check out Kona. You might be Hilo folks (you won't know until you check it out) but the humidity thing was big for us, as was accessibility to good swimming beaches. If you like more of the lush old Hawaii feel, then the Captain Cook area might be nice for you too. You can certainly get more house for your money down there and still be relatively close to everything.
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The not wanting to cook dinner and heat up the house I fully get. We plan on not cooking much at all - do you find yourself living produce heavy with all the fresh produce in the area? I could get by on fruits, nuts, veggies and peanut butter sandwiches 90% of the time. Do you grill outside often to avoid heating up the house with the stove?
We love our rice cooker. Rice is a staple here, you can get it with every meal. I'm making friends with my slow cooker, which I never before used that much, but it's awesome here. I can still make lasagne every once in a while without turning on the oven! We would grill out more, probably most nights, but currently have only a small charcoal grill. If we got a gas grill, that's how we'd cook most of the time. And yes, plenty of fresh stuff too. Sliced bread is prohibitively expensive -- I get Dave's bread (all natural out of Oregon) at Costco, still expensive but at least good for you, or get the fresh baked stuff from Island Naturals which is surprisingly reasonable.
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What language does your husband program in? Has he had any difficulties with the speed or reliability of the internet? Does he manage to program very early in the morning? My husband reckons he will try and start his day around 4 am to free up the day for other activities.
The internet is GREAT here in Kona. It takes a couple weeks to get on the books and get it hooked up, so you have to have an interim plan (he used his cell tethering). Of course we were coming from a remote area with slow DSL so I'll have to ask him about the actual speeds we're getting here. And what language hasn't he programmed in?! He's a Java guy but most of his recent work has been in Perl I think, and he's done just about everything. He's worked for some big time companies (Fidelity, NASD [now FINRA]) and really small startups. We used to live in the Boston area. He usually starts around 6 but I know they'd love him to start earlier if he could, but then he'd be asleep by 7pm!!
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What are the odds of meeting another SAHM who is choosing to homeschool with a hubby in IT that has already taken the big leap we are researching? If this move flies I would love to get together and grab lunch! I think we would get along quite well also.
Pretty crazy! I sent you a PM so we can chat more about specifics without being on the forum.
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How is Kona for overall ease of life on things like hitting the library, grabbing a coffee with a friend, grocery shopping for good produce etc? I know you said traffic can get tough but does it literally deter you from heading out the door at times?
One of the things I love about Kona is that all those things are easy. Lots of easy shopping for groceries and necessities, clothes, etc. Other people find it small-town-ish here as far as selection, but I came from a small town in WA that only had a WalMart and a couple high-priced boutiques. Having Target, Macy's, Costco that's only 10 minutes away, Pier 1, etc. etc. is like "big city" for me. Traffic just means certain parts of the highway will take you longer, it never keeps us from going anywhere. I usually avoid going down to Kailua town late Saturday mornings because it's pretty busy and the parking lots fill up with tourists, so I do anything I want to do down there during the week.
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Aaahh sorry!! If I am overwhelming you with too many questions it is simply because you are the first person that seems to get where I am coming from. A final thanks for being kind enough to put together such a fabulous post. I shall keep you posted on our progress.
You're very welcome! I'm glad it was helpful and hopefully will give some honest pointers to others who come looking, too. Do keep posting here as you make this decision... these kinds of threads are especially valuable when the OP keeps posting -- even if you end up making the decision not to move. It's good information!!
I shot you back on PM for the various specifics on schooling. Thanks for all the additional info and I will keep posting. There is another software programmer hoping to live on the BI from Springfield VA - clearly this idea is catching on with a lot of the IT types.
I have looked on both Zillow and Craigslist and it looks as though a modest monthly rental can be found in Kona for around $2000. We plan to arrange a furnished vacation rental and hopefully secure a long term dwelling if all pans out. We can leave our pets with family and hopefully luck out in finding an animal friendly place, although your warning is echoed everywhere about the difficulties of bringing them with us.
The shopping sounds like just enough but I am curious if Costco meets all your grocery needs? Do you hit the farmers market as well to supplement? How much did your grocery budget jump up since leaving Washington State? We keep our diet as organic as possible especially concerning the produce, beef and dairy - I recall someone mentioning the availability of grass fed Beef on the BI. I am mostly vegetarian but my husband is a Texan so he sees beef as some sort of birthright!
Have you had any reason to visit a pediatrician yet and if so what are your observations on the care you received? Hopefully you have not had a need but I am curious as to any of your impressions on healthcare in Kona.
I guess that is it for now - OpenD offered up a wonderful post so packed with info on the various areas that I feel like I am back at school tackling a massive research project - Thanks again OpenD!!!
What are the odds of meeting another SAHM who is choosing to homeschool with a hubby in IT that has already taken the big leap we are researching?
The odds are very good (but the goods are odd, goes the old Alaska saying), given there are *at*least* 2 people in that exact situation responding to your thread. There is definitely a small group of remote tech workers supporting families in HI, and schools being what they are, homeschooling and posting on city-data is not uncommon. I personally know of another family in this exact situation that moved from Kaua'i to Maui, and I've heard of several others (and dozens of non-homeschooling remote tech workers). And it's not just programmers, but people with online businesses, blogs that make money, etc.
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Originally Posted by Trixie4
The biggest roadblock I have found is the finding a decent rental to accept pets.
As confirmed by willowkim, this is a huge one. But there are many other roadblocks mentioned in this thread and in other threads (do read the other "planning/moving to Hawaii" threads).
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Originally Posted by Trixie4
I assume our grocery bill will be way higher upon moving without a Costco to hit up for produce.
Do not assume anything about Hawaii. As others have said, it is very, very different, and in ways you wouldn't expect. There is a Costco on the BI, but a lot of people have to drive a long way to get there. Costco in HI has some good produce deals and some not-so-good. But why buy expensive mainland fruits and veggies when the BI has the cheapest and largest farmers markets in HI? You can get quality local fruit and produce at HI farmers markets cheaper than in stores, and often cheaper than in mainland stores--it's one thing where COL is better in HI.
So I'm glad you're starting to get answers for your questions, but I also wanted to address the meta-discussion about attitude on this forum. I don't think we're seeing mean-spiritedness, just a clash of personalities and styles. I have often pointed out in other threads that whtviper1 jumps to conclusions and dismisses legitimate questions rather curtly. I have also disagreed with him about various topics. But he is a successful professional in Hawaii, and he brings an honest no-nonsense opinion of life in Hawaii to these forums. It is just as real as any other, and I'm glad the others such as OpenD and willowkim on the BI, who are closer to your intended lifestyle, have joined in to give you their opinions.
Another problem is we are all defining "dreamer" differently. For some it refers to those who want to move to BI, live in a tent and collect welfare (I exaggerate), for other it is simply people who think about living in Hawaii and want to ask questions before investing more time in research.
This forum (like any online forum) is a mixed pot of regulars and one-offs, lurkers and verbose, residents and non-residents answering each other and the inevitable future resident. Not to mention outright trolls who try to get everybody riled up with outrageous fake posts. Everybody has their own personality, and sometimes they clash. I don't always agree with Robin Rossi, but his/her post #50 (http://www.city-data.com/forum/29956250-post50.html) was 100% true in my opinion. New people arrive all the time (to this forum, to the islands) and stir things ups. The regulars can often see which attitudes will fit in and which will not. But every situation is different, some people change, others find their tribe, so it's obvious no one is 100% accurate--but that doesn't mean they are always wrong either. And often the regulars are responding to the stereotype of the dreamer rather than the individual that started the thread (looking back, that seems to be what happened after whtviper1's first post on this thread).
At the risk of being rude, I do want to say to Trixie4: some of your ramblings and justifications and way you defend yourself strike me as self-important and boastful, sometimes petty (correcting spelling). That might be who you are, or it might be just a persona, or sometimes like me, the attacks get you all riled up and you respond off the cuff. But that is a social faux-pas in Hawaii, where people tend to be more reserved, humble, and respectful when beginning social interaction, and that extends to these forums. I realize you want to defend your entheusiasm, but take a step back from this discussion, take a deep breath, and consider the people who are spending their time to answer your questions and offer you ideas.
Thanks for your thoughts and in all fairness I did get riled up by the initial assumption that I was a flaky dreamer. By no means did I mean to come off as self important or boastful. When you get individuals spouting off about legal issues concerning minimalism and home schooling practices it is a little tiring to put it nicely. I am not in the habit of having to explain myself to total strangers, let alone rude and sarcastic men like Viper - I find it very hard to believe he is an established business man given his propensity to jump to conclusions. As far as Robin Rossi, the correction of his or her spelling was not a kind thing and for this I am not proud - but nor was calling another poster dysfunctional. I am sure some will find me boastful and that is ok with me as I can't please everyone. However, when people come out with brazen assumptions on how I parent or live, well, I find this behavior shortsighted and I will answer accordingly. For the record, I have been advised through PM about both Rossi and Viper by a very credible CD member. As far as Viper, I am gobsmacked that you don't see the rudeness and aggression in his posts. Nevertheless, I shall take a deep breath and mind my own postings so that I don;t earn a similar reputation. Thanks for the reality check KauaiHiker.
Living in Asheville is not cheap either - my husband just clarified that we spend $400 a week for groceries whereas I had initially thought it was closer to $300. Either way, I assume our grocery bill will be way higher upon moving without a Costco to hit up for produce.
Depends on where you live and how you shop. There is a Costco in Kailua-Kona which is quite popular, even with residents of Hilo and HOVE. I don't know many people who don't shop there at least once a month. Hilo has the largest farmers market on the island, and there are smaller ones all over the island where you can buy local produce at very good prices. Rice is a staple in Hawai'i, so prices are competitive, and local fish is inexpensive. Local sweet potatoes, papayas, apple bananas, lots of Asian veggies... all items you'd pay a premium for on the mainland, but all quite affordable from local vendors at the markets.
The less packaged food you buy that has to be shipped 2,500 miles the better off your budget will be. But for most people keeping their food budgets reasonable in Hawai'i requires changing eating habits, something not everyone is willing to do. Flexibility and adaptation to the local situation is a key survival skill.
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We have planned a four week trip in November, and the worst thing that could happen is we enjoy a month long holiday checking out a beautiful island. If it works out we will be happy and if it doesn't we will still be happy.
Yes, that's the attitude. Typically November is the rainiest month of the year, so you'll get a taste of what some consider the "worst" of the Big Island. I highly recommend the Totes Titanium line of umbrellas... I always have one in my knapsack or shoulder bag. Amazon.com: Totes Titanium Auto-Open/Close Umbrella, Denim: Clothing
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Originally Posted by Trixie4
When someone starts swinging before asking questions I see a red flag and think back to good ol Rush - so if you ask me it is the raged filled individuals that suffer from true disconnect, not families questioning materialism.
An excellent observation, and one that psychologists who study internet bullying confirm. The anonymity and physical distance (you can't hit them), amplified by the bullies' personal issues, encourage them to engage in anti-social behavior they would be unlikely to commit in person.
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Originally Posted by Trixie4
And with all due respect, if you want to take a shot at my character please at least get the spelling right as it plays on your credibility when you spell dysfunction with an i rather than a y.
That's just the low hanging fruit. Much worse, in my opinion, is the impaired reading comprehension, along with an apparent inability to correctly interpret what has been read, that leads to so much misrepresentation of what people really said here.
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Originally Posted by Trixie4
Again, I sense jealousy by many on this board - we are brave enough to live outside of the norm - that is what it takes to do what we have done and will do in life.
Yes, as far as I am concerned, that brings the core issue to ground. The usual suspects here who like to crush any and all dreamers aren't missing any meals, and they don't really have any stake in other people's choices, and they have various and sundry justifications for asserting their superiority over others. But if you observe closely, they each have dreams themselves which they are not pursuing, for one reason or another. Most have what I call "someday" lives... someday I'll sail the world... someday I'll move to Maui... someday...
And perhaps, someday, they will. Perhaps. And I honestly hope they do.
Or perhaps they will just kick the bucket before they ever get around to checking off their list. I've personally known way too many folks in that category. A good buddy was killed in his 20s by a mugger. I was across the street from a friend in his 30s as he fell to the ground and died instantly of an unsuspected aneurysm. My sister was killed in her 40s when she was T-boned in an intersection by a red-light runner. I was nearly killed myself at 50 when an oncoming motorist abruptly turned left in front of me without signalling. An otherwise healthy employee of mine in his early 60s died quickly of an extremely rare virus that attacks heart muscles. And so on and so on. People who work terribly, terribly hard at providing a rock-solid future for themselves can often be in complete denial about how uncertain life really is.
Personally I encourage you to keep dreaming and keep exploring. Ignore the bullies and trolls. They're not living your life, and they may not even be fully living their own. Gather all the information you can, then make the decision that makes sense to you... even if it is to say "no, this isn't it after all."
One more tip for your trip that occurs to me, and which often doesn't occur to visitors... re: visiting the Big Island in November. Sunset will be around 5:40pm then, and it gets dark pretty fast. There are not a lot of streetlights on the island, and most of the ones you see are mostly dim and quite yellow, almost like a caution light. It's part of the effort to keep night skies dark for the benefit of the multi-billion dollar observatories on Mauna Kea. The whole island pretty much goes to bed around 9 pm. Full moon is the 17th, so the beginning and end of the month will be darkest. You might want to pick up a couple of flashlights once you get situated.
OpenD I want to thank you for all of the great guidance and encouragement. I am sorry you lost your sister so young and for your near miss with the oncoming motorist. It is these losses in life that drive so many of us to embrace life fully for what better way to honor those we have loved and lost.
I lost my Mom very suddenly to heart disease when I was 15 and she was only 57. The one thing people repeatedly said at the wake was that she lived and loved on a grand level for so few years on earth. My Mother took nothing for granted in life and was busy studying Portugal for a trip abroad as she like to talk to locals in their tongue.
I clearly recall asking if she was excited about a trip to the Caribbean she and my Father had planned which was scheduled to take place a week later. My Mother responded with "God Willing, I am looking forward to the holiday." Being 15 and invincible, I rolled my eyes at what I perceived to be a byproduct of her conversion to Catholicism - she was a very spiritual woman in the most genuine way. So imagine my shock when she died at the crack of dawn a week later. just days before leaving for the trip that I assumed was in the bag.
Like most children to lose a Mother I am very mindful of the ticking clock and of what truly matters in life. Perhaps that fuels my desire to live fully. Thanks again for the thoughtful post and for making me remember how precious our time on earth really is. That Bucket list mindset is a dangerous game to play indeed.
The not wanting to cook dinner and heat up the house I fully get. We plan on not cooking much at all - do you find yourself living produce heavy with all the fresh produce in the area? I could get by on fruits, nuts, veggies and peanut butter sandwiches 90% of the time. Do you grill outside often to avoid heating up the house with the stove?
We setup an outdoor kitchen of sorts on our lanai. Gas grill and a wok burner handle 90% of our cooking needs. We even bake on the grill. We're in Hilo at about 900 feet elevation with glorious trade winds so it's not a heat issue but it's simply cheaper to cook with gas than electricity.
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Originally Posted by Trixie4
What language does your husband program in? Has he had any difficulties with the speed or reliability of the internet? Does he manage to program very early in the morning? My husband reckons he will try and start his day around 4 am to free up the day for other activities.
I'm a software developer (C++, .NET, Java, Javascript) for mainland company and have no problems with Oceanic Time Warner's internet performance, other than I find it a bit pricey. I start work between 4 and 5am and have the afternoons free for the rest of life. Of course I'm ready for bed between 8 and 9pm lol.
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Originally Posted by willowkim
And, about the pets, I'm going to be brutally honest. DON'T BRING THEM. I know they are a part of your family. I KNOW. We said goodbye to our dog of 11 years to a good family friend when we decided to move to Hawaii. A friend of mine here, who moved with three kids and two dogs... they had three months in a vacation rental to look for long term housing and about 98% of rentals on the market won't even consider pets. They were very, very stressed out. Finally they got someone to rent to them, but are paying much more than they wanted to pay for a smaller place. And it took literally WEEKS for this landlord to decide to rent to them. (Weeks of hoping this ONE house they found, in the school district they wanted, would rent to them.) I would NEVER bring pets here unless you plan to simply buy a place outright. I also wouldn't have put my dog through the flight and transfer that needed to happen to get him here, it wouldn't have been a good thing for him. It's hard enough to find a good rental for a larger family... throw in pets and you have a recipe for stress and stress, and more stress.
Pets are a tough decision for some, we personally view pet ownership a life long commitment so our kids were coming with us. We made them a priority on our move - hired a pet mover to handle all the paperwork and vet arrangements (big stress reliever), drove them 1200 miles so they only had one direct flight to Kona and of course, came over and purchased a home before we moved. Certainly not the norm but it worked out amazingly well.
I recommend what other posters have said about your month long visit - work and live your normal daily life as much as possible and don't treat it as a vacation. Check out the entire island and enjoy the journey. Best of luck.
Thanks for sharing your take on things. But if you go back to my original post I made it crystal clear that we had secured a liveable income and would not be a financial burden to the local economy. Please reread my OP and Viper's kneejerk response - he came across with anger straight out of the gate. I was advised by several on this forum to block him as he is a known bully with "problems" and as of today I have done so.
Constructive criticism is one thing, and as I have said I will take the knocks on my restlessness - but then this restlessness has allowed my kids to see and do things that others miss due to not dreaming enough in life. I assure you there is no disconnect - I merely named two celebs that have commented on not being attached to things in life. Anderson Cooper is a Billionaire if you count his Vanderbilt wealth and yet he roamed the globe with a backpack and camera - he chose to live as rough as the next journalist because he put little value on material things after surviving a childhood based on nothing but material things.
I am also capable of forming mental images of people here on City Data - a Bill O'Reilly wannabe comes to mind every time I read Viper's many rude responses. I returned the favor and reviewed his history of posts - he hurls a great deal of anger toward anyone who sees life differently, he has this total sense of entitlement - don't take my word for it but rather look into his posting history. When we lived in Boca Raton I was one of the first in my circle of friends to notice that Rush Limbaugh's constant rage was indeed a red flag and sure enough his maid turned dealer confirmed my suspicions. When someone starts swinging before asking questions I see a red flag and think back to good ol Rush - so if you ask me it is the raged filled individuals that suffer from true disconnect, not families questioning materialism.
As far as minimalism working with kids - they have everything that they love and need but nothing else. My teens each have a lap top and I pod but only have maybe a dozen items of clothing and a couple pairs of shoes. My eldest son also owns an electric guitar and art supplies as these are his interests. My eldest daughter has a hair dryer, but only two pairs of jeans and this is because she doesn't have a need for more - if she did we would not hesitate to buy her more.
We are still hoping to give Hawaii a go as I believe the overall experience would be worth the money spent. As for me dreaming up a new scenario a few years down the road - expect it! A few years in Australia would probably be a natural follow up to Hawaii - minimalism lends to easy movement after all. A nomadic lifestyle must seem strange to many but it has definitely served my family well - and for the record, we run any and all plans past our kids - strange again I am sure but different strokes for different folks.
I am not trying to shove my belief in minimalism down anyone's throat but put this info out for anyone who might be truly interested. So much hardship comes to families through debt caused by assuming having kids means spending a small fortune on stuff and I want to spread the word that while ours is an unconventional approach there is no lack of joy or abundance when you pass on the mass produced crap that is pushed on every new parent. Nor am I passing judgement on those who have full closets of designer jeans - it is just not for us.
I have not posted in a long time, due to a couple of people here that claimed *I* was some sort of bully.
I simply told the truth. Nothing more, nothing less, and those people didn't like it. Those same people who messaged you about WhitViper being some sort of "bully" will now do the same towards me. In reality, they are the bullies of the forum. Think about it. (I was made aware of this thread by a friend, who also used to post a lot, and was deemed a bully by these same people. Now he just reads. What a shame)
WhitViper is completely honest in his replies. He isn't trying to be "mean". He wants you to be fully aware of what you are getting yourself - AND YOUR CHILDREN - into. Being home-schooled and introverts will not help them one bit in Hawaii. They will not be accepted here unless they are big-time into sports. Mine were. It made all the difference.
His comments about minimalism wasn't about you being a financial burden to the economy - just the opposite - there are so many minimalist types moving to the Big Island that they are hurting the economy because they don't spend anything to help it out.
Oh, and I work from home for a couple of the largest companies in the world. Internet access is something you have to know in advance, for any particular home. just because someone says subdivision ABC has broadband, does not mean that your house in the same subdivision will have it it. It can vary, block-by-block. In many areas, all of the ports are taken. This means that while you are told that broadband is available - it may mean that someone else has to either move, not pay thir bill and get cut-off, or die before you can get broadband.
In some places, people will PAY someone else to relinquish their broadband to them! I know of an older gentlemen who received just over $2,000 for his connection!
Thanks for the info on broadband, although many have stated absolutely no problems with internet access on the BI. I am so tired of defending minimalism when in reality it is only part of who i am - I simply didn't want people saying look elsewhere you cant afford a Mc Mansion etc etc So I stated that we lived minimally - next time I will know better.
With all due respect, I never once said my kids were introverts. How could home schooling hurt them in Hawaii - I don't follow what this could mean. I find that kids find friends and acceptance in the circles they choose and while your boys are into sports, mine are into art and music.
I choose not to discuss Viper's aggressive nature toward me and other posters. For the record, there were many posters that stepped forward to identify the said bullys on private message.
As far as minimalists not helping out the economy. I beg to differ as most shop locally grown produce and locally made clothing as often as possible. Again, we still pay for many necessary things just not unnecessary things. While I respect your perspective I hope that you will respect mine in return.
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Traffic just means certain parts of the highway will take you longer, it never keeps us from going anywhere. I usually avoid going down to Kailua town late Saturday mornings because it's pretty busy and the parking lots fill up with tourists, so I do anything I want to do down there during the week.
