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Old 10-15-2014, 03:47 PM
 
Location: Na'alehu Hawaii/Buena Vista Colorado
5,207 posts, read 10,444,707 times
Reputation: 5503

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Of course it is preferable to shop local. We buy as much as we can from the local farmers, for example. And we buy from locally owned businesses as much as possible. But the reality is that for a whole lot of items, we need to shop at the larger, nationally owned stores. There are just too many things that the smaller, locally owned stores don't even stock.

And the reality is that the smaller guys can't hire more than a handful of people, while Target, Costco, and WalMart DO provide jobs for hundreds of people.
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Old 10-15-2014, 04:41 PM
 
Location: Kūkiʻo, HI & Manhattan Beach, CA
2,624 posts, read 6,516,289 times
Reputation: 2396
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawaiian by heart View Post
I have to disagree, but economicly yes your right. But responsibility wise your wrong. Most local businesses are owned by people who live in the communities and make decisions based on whats best for the communities, aina etc because they have roots. Most large corporations don't care about the community, only in terms of profits. Money is the driving facto
Nearly all business decisions are driven by money and profits and many businesses assign a dollar value to "community goodwill." Maximizing "goodwill" for the least cost is often one component in business decision-making. For instance, companies that sponsor community events generate "goodwill" and get relatively cheap advertising in the process. Accountants consider "goodwill" to be an "intangible asset" and it's occasionally included on corporate balance sheets. Here's a link to a quick primer on "goodwill"…
https://www.boundless.com/accounting...dwill-263-707/

Last edited by Jonah K; 10-15-2014 at 04:50 PM..
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Old 10-15-2014, 04:43 PM
 
Location: Volcano
12,971 posts, read 24,949,991 times
Reputation: 10632
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreaming of Hawaii View Post
And the reality is that the smaller guys can't hire more than a handful of people, while Target, Costco, and WalMart DO provide jobs for hundreds of people.
But keep in mind that they do that by displacing hundred of people from the jobs they had working for the small businesses forced out of business by Walmart et al. And let's not forget all the smaller shop owners who lost their businesses, and their incomes.

Among the big box stores, Costco is clearly the best for employees. Nationally, they have said they support the proposed $10.50 minimum wage, and they actually start their new employees at $11.50 or better. It's been reported that in Hawai'i they pay $16.50 or better.

And if you compare what Costco employees report vs what Walmart employees report on Glassdoor, it's clear they are miles apart.

Last edited by OpenD; 10-15-2014 at 04:54 PM..
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Old 10-15-2014, 06:21 PM
 
Location: mainland but born oahu
6,657 posts, read 6,787,837 times
Reputation: 3123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonah K View Post
Nearly all business decisions are driven by money and profits and many businesses assign a dollar value to "community goodwill." Maximizing "goodwill" for the least cost is often one component in business decision-making. For instance, companies that sponsor community events generate "goodwill" and get relatively cheap advertising in the process. Accountants consider "goodwill" to be an "intangible asset" and it's occasionally included on corporate balance sheets. Here's a link to a quick primer on "goodwill"…
https://www.boundless.com/accounting...dwill-263-707/
I think you misunderstand me Jonah. There is so much more to being good for and part of a community then money. A local business owner who lives in the same community isn't going to dump toxins in the stream where his kids play in. Nor is he going to treat his employees bad etc.
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Old 10-15-2014, 06:30 PM
 
Location: mainland but born oahu
6,657 posts, read 6,787,837 times
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I personally believe a standard of being good for a community isn't just based on money. There are so many other factors. Wish we as a society can get past money as the primary measuring stick for if things are good on every aspect of life.
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Old 10-15-2014, 06:31 PM
 
Location: Kailua
10,464 posts, read 13,709,316 times
Reputation: 5211
Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenD View Post
But keep in mind that they do that by displacing hundred of people from the jobs they had working for the small businesses forced out of business by Walmart et al. And let's not forget all the smaller shop owners who lost their businesses, and their incomes.

Among the big box stores, Costco is clearly the best for employees. Nationally, they have said they support the proposed $10.50 minimum wage, and they actually start their new employees at $11.50 or better. It's been reported that in Hawai'i they pay $16.50 or better.

And if you compare what Costco employees report vs what Walmart employees report on Glassdoor, it's clear they are miles apart.
Walmart is not forcing small businesses out. If people continued to shop at the small businesses, we wouldn't even be having the debate. One should be asking the question, what shopping experience is driving people to Walmart vs. small business.

Let's debate what these stores pay the employees. One of the major complaints you also hear in the news about raising minimum wage is that it will make small businesses suffer. Maybe. What I do know, in the overwhelming Democratic Senate and House with a Democratic Governor, the State of Hawaii has the sole ability to raise minimum wage. While easy to point the finger at Walmart - it is entirely within the control of the state to raise minimum wages regardless if the store is on DHHL/OHA or private land.

During the last min wage debate - I don't recall any complaints from Walmart or any of the big boxes about raising it - but the small biz cry was loud and clear.

Hawaii’s Cost of Living Will Increase with Minimum Wage Hike | Hawaii Reporter

In 2006, the average hourly wage at Walmart in Hawaii was over $10/hr., so the current min wage increase doesn't do much for them. I would expect that number to be much higher in 2014.

Wal-Mart raises wages at 1,200 stores | The Honolulu Advertiser | Hawaii's Newspaper

Glassdoor doesn't have Hawaii hourly wages listed, and I'd expect Walmart wages to be lower in rural mainland communities than Hawaii by quite a bit. It isn't a good comparison to look at Walmart wages on the mainland and guess what it is here. The lack of Glassdoor wages listed for Hawaii is interesting as Glassdoor is a forum for workers to often complain about pay.

Ultimately, making $10/hr + is better than making $0/hr.
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Old 10-15-2014, 06:52 PM
 
Location: mainland but born oahu
6,657 posts, read 6,787,837 times
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@whtviper1

Oh sighhhh! More pro corporate and rich privileged propaganda. Now if we can just raise the min wage and have people not take advantage of others by making it an excuse to raise prices we would be ok.

whtviper1 quote: Ultimately, making $10/hr + is better than making $0/hr. end quote: well making a billion in profit instead of multi billion is still great. Be greatful and pay your employees the value of what they produce.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/13/su...nate.html?_r=0
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Old 10-15-2014, 07:21 PM
 
Location: Kūkiʻo, HI & Manhattan Beach, CA
2,624 posts, read 6,516,289 times
Reputation: 2396
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawaiian by heart View Post
I think you misunderstand me Jonah. There is so much more to being good for and part of a community then money. A local business owner who lives in the same community isn't going to dump toxins in the stream where his kids play in. Nor is he going to treat his employees bad etc.
If the local business owner illegal dumped toxic waste in the stream his kids played in or treated his employees poorly, it would eventually affect the bottom line of the business. It's not necessarily a matter of being "good" and part of a "community" -- it's a matter of avoiding bad publicity (i.e. "negative goodwill") and litigation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hawaiian by heart View Post
I personally believe a standard of being good for a community isn't just based on money. There are so many other factors. Wish we as a society can get past money as the primary measuring stick for if things are good on every aspect of life.
Remember that the missionaries came to Hawaiʻi ostensibly to "do good" and many of their descendants did pretty well in assorted businesses. Money is just a convenient proxy for wealth. In the past, kānaka maoli believed in accumulating and "sharing the wealth." Today, many folks have failed at the "accumulating" part, while others have failed at the "sharing" part.
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Old 10-15-2014, 07:49 PM
 
Location: mainland but born oahu
6,657 posts, read 6,787,837 times
Reputation: 3123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonah K View Post
If the local business owner illegal dumped toxic waste in the stream his kids played in or treated his employees poorly, it would eventually affect the bottom line of the business. It's not necessarily a matter of being "good" and part of a "community" -- it's a matter of avoiding bad publicity (i.e. "negative goodwill") and litigation.


Remember that the missionaries came to Hawaiʻi ostensibly to "do good" and many of their descendants did pretty well in assorted businesses. Money is just a convenient proxy for wealth. In the past, kānaka maoli believed in accumulating and "sharing the wealth." Today, many folks have failed at the "accumulating" part, while others have failed at the "sharing" part.

Got to appreciate your way with words jonah your right on with the second paragraph.
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Old 10-16-2014, 07:44 AM
 
Location: Appalachian Mountains
574 posts, read 1,039,493 times
Reputation: 468
And just think...all this started with my little, simple question. I love it. Seriously, it does help me understand the feelings of those who live there and I can appreciate those, both pro and con. I, too, live in an area that gets lots of visitors and many had/have similar attitudes toward the big box stores. We didn't get a WalMart in our area until two years ago and that generated some lively debate.
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