Building an off grid tiny house on the Hilo side of Hawaii, Advice needed (prebuilt, to rent)

[TwoByFour]

Originally Posted by hotzcatz

4. The actual permit fee isn't too much, just a couple of hundred or so, depending on the size of the structure. The exact numbers or a pretty close estimate is on the Building Department's website.

It is based on the value of the building, for Maui it comes out to about 1% for smaller projects. On the permit application you have to declare the value. They have a pretty good idea so you cannot just make something up that is really low. Average cost for building a house is $200/sq. ft. but there is a lot of variation in that. High end houses can be twice that, easily.

[TGPILOT]

Thanks Hotz, appreciate the details. Has it always been this way, or since the Government figured out how to make more money? Thanks everyone for your inputs too.

[67Cam]

In my research the cost to build on the Big Island is approx $125 per square foot...

[Howleeboy]

The variables in construction costs must be huge. Compare Moke, owner-building his single wall camp house in Haina with Cedric, contracting his Kohala shoreline villa.

Is $125/sq ft realistic for contracted, permitted residential construction in any region? Site work included?

[67Cam]

Originally Posted by Howleeboy

The variables in construction costs must be huge. Compare Moke, owner-building his single wall camp house in Haina with Cedric, contracting his Kohala shoreline villa.

Is $125/sq ft realistic for contracted, permitted residential construction in any region? Site work included?

There are many asterisks and "not included". The $125/sf was from several sources, including Honsador. Another source, wirh answers to many questions:

Bobby Inc. Big Island Home Builder Kona Hawaii Construction Contractor

Of course, a little Google research with key words - residential build cost per square foot big island Hawaii - and variations of that, will get you more info.

[TwoByFour]

Originally Posted by Howleeboy

The variables in construction costs must be huge. Compare Moke, owner-building his single wall camp house in Haina with Cedric, contracting his Kohala shoreline villa.

Is $125/sq ft realistic for contracted, permitted residential construction in any region? Site work included?

My SIL is a designer for a contractor on Maui and she gave me the figure of $200/sq ft. for a (modest) house we were thinking of building. That included site prep and all work necessary for certificate of occupancy. It was not a bid, just an estimate based on her experience. We ended up buying a house.

We have since then built two structures on our property and that $200 figure seems about right. If you can build a house for 125/sq ft, it would likely be a cane shack (single wall construction, no dry wall, no lanai, very simple).

I don't know if the BI is as complicated as Maui County, but building here is not easy. Bureaucratic. If you need anything special at all you have to order it way in advance so it gets there in time for builders to have it. Building is booming so all the builders are really busy. Higher demand means they can charge more. It takes forever to get anything done.

[hotzcatz]

Originally Posted by TGPILOT

Thanks Hotz, appreciate the details. Has it always been this way, or since the Government figured out how to make more money? Thanks everyone for your inputs too.

It's tightened up somewhat over the past several decades, although IMHO it was the hurricanes that caused construction costs to rise more than anything else. Prior to the hurricanes, to build a typical hale, you'd set a large 'tofu block' (16" x 16" x 8" solid concrete block) on the ground, a smaller 8" x 8" x 6" one on top, then a metal termite pan (thin, about 9" square sheet of galvanized metal with slightly down turned edges) - just set on top, not attached to anything. On that foundation, you'd set a 4" x 4" post, even up to eight feet or over, although mostly they were shorter than that. That 4" x 4" post was braced 2,3 or 4 ways with a diagonal 2" x 4" toenailed to the post.

On top of the post there was a beam, on top of the beam were floor joists. This was before Simpson joist hangers, so usually it would be beam with joists on top, which I think is a better method since it doesn't depend on the strength of the fasteners to stay together. On top of the floor joists was the flooring, usually it would be some sort of tongue and groove hardwood although sometimes it would be fir. Sometimes 3/4" T & G plywood with some other more decorative floor covering on top, although sometimes people would just paint a carpet on the plywood and call it done.

From the floor platform, the construction could go two ways. One choice would be single wall with the 1" thick tongue & groove (or flat boards with battens at the edges) walls face nailed to the sides of the platform. Or folks could opt for double wall construction with 2" x 4"s at usually 16" o.c. There would usually be 3/8" thick 4' x 8' T1-11 panels (plywood with a textured surface usually with grooves on it) on the exterior walls and either drywall or 1" x 6" T & G pine on the interior. T & G pine came out cheaper than drywall if the homeowner was doing the installation and installation time wasn't a factor. Folks would either soak the pine in heavily salted water or use an anti-termite treatment. There were other options such as timber frame or pole house, but those weren't the typical choices.

Old style roofs were rafters/trusses at four feet on center with 2" x 3" purlins at three feet on center, tin roof nailed to that and you're done. No hurricane strapping, no Simpson fittings, no poured in one piece footings, etc. etc. No requirement for shear walls or solid corners.

You could build up to, I think it was, either 1,200 or 1,600 square foot two story house without an engineer's or architect's stamp. But, that was then (late 70's thru the late 80's), this is now so things are different.

Actually, if you compare getting a building permit on Hawaii island to getting one in some parts of California, we have it really easy. It took my cousin tens of thousands of dollars and several years to get a permit in Monterey and it wasn't for an outrageous house or anything.

[MikeyMike11]

Originally Posted by hjmontijo

I thought about getting a permit, however, with the cost to get plans drawn up and stamped and all the other fees involved, and having to hire out for electrical and plumbing, it was going to be too expensive. I am working with a tight budget and want to make sure that I can complete my project without having to take out a loan or borrow any money. I believe the cost of building un-permitted would pay for itself in less than a year. Additionally, I plan to start off with a composting toilet and I am not sure what the rules and regulations are on those and I am sure the permitting process can get pretty tricky in that situation.

Again, Thank you all for the advice. Keep em comin'

You've just got to do more research. I'm just a haole and I looked up the country regs. if it is under a square footage, you do not need anymore construction documents than what you have posted already. Needs to be under 1400 sq ft as per Hawaii country regs.

[MikeyMike11]

Section 5-26. Package homes.

In lieu of compliance with those provisions of section 5-25 pertaining to dwellings, model package homes (homes manufactured in a factory and ready to be assembled on the job site) may be pre-approved as follows by the Hawai‘i County Department of Public Works-Building Division (DPW-Building Division).

(1) Pre-approval shall be limited to three typical model home designs per manufacturer per year, with no revisions. Any revisions to the pre-approved plans will require submittal of the entire particular revised plans and documents for approval. Minimum square footage shall be 900 square feet and maximum square footage shall be 1,400 square feet living area (not including carport/garage). Maximum 2-car carport/garage may be included.
(2) Pre-approval is good for one calendar year (January to December) for the calendar year in which approval is requested. All model pre-approved shall expire by December 31 of each calendar year.
(3) When submitting for pre-approval, applicant shall submit six sets of complete working drawings and specifications along with package home seal and authorizing signature.
(4) There shall be a one time plan review fee based on the actual valuation of the dwelling to be paid by the package model home manufacturer who is submitting the plans for pre-approval. Fees will be charged per model submitted, per section 5-36, table 1-A, item E. All other occupancies shall be based on valuation and the schedule below.
(5) When submitting for building permit under pre-approved plans, the owner/contractor shall:
(A) Submit two sets of complete working drawings showing the pre-approved model number along with the manufacturer’s wet seal and authorizing signature. DPW-Building Division will verify seal and signature.
(B) Obtain approvals from other approving department/agencies.
(6) Approval from DPW-Building Division will be given within forty-eight hours.
(7) Pre-approved construction drawings will not be required to be individually stamped by a duly registered engineer or architect in accordance with chapter 464, Hawai‘i Revised Statutes.

Seems like you might not meet the minimum square footage though...
(2012, Ord. No. 12-27, sec. 2.)

[MikeyMike11]

Originally Posted by Howleeboy

The variables in construction costs must be huge. Compare Moke, owner-building his single wall camp house in Haina with Cedric, contracting his Kohala shoreline villa.

Is $125/sq ft realistic for contracted, permitted residential construction in any region? Site work included?

I'm getting close to nailing my price down. I'm going to pay ~$40/sq ft on construction, on a lot with electric and water, am getting permitted, and hiring who I need to, to make it legal. I've been doing stuff like this for awhile and have many tricks up my sleeve. If you are going to hire someone to build a package home, I would estimate between $80-$125 depending on the package. I can't stress how much of a rip off that is. It's a package home!

I'm not going to suggest you build your own home, but do you have any experience? If you can't turn a screw driver or swing a hammer, home owning will be a terrible experience for you. You're going to pay a guy $150/hr to put wires through holes. Code states that all connections need to be made by a licensed electrical contractor, like it does everywhere else in this country. Also, if you can't manage constant and basic maintenance on your property, not only will your home depreciate at an alarming rate, but so will the neighbor's house. Also notice my lot has water and electric. That vastly simplify things for me, but it makes it way cheaper too. I'm getting over head electric, into a box at the street, and then burying the line myself, and letting an electrician do all hookups. Same with plumbing. I'm actually going to just blast through the lava with a hydraulic jack attachment on a skidster. That right there saves me thousands of dollars on my septic, pier blocks, and burying my pipes and wires. I think about $4k in savings from the prices I've been hearing.

I talked with the county peoples, and I don't know what half the people on this thread are smoking. They answered my questions, and gave me a lot of insight. They said that 2005 EPA regulations state you need septic tanks, and they have been flying over the jungle looking for unpermitted cabins. Maybe they were lying, maybe not? Just them saying that was enough to make me think that building an unpermitted cabin was foolish.

Also, look at the resale value on those... Don't tell me you never plan on selling. I've heard so many homeowners say that, and then get screwed when they eventually do.