Ocean View/HOVE/HOVR: crime? (Captain Cook: 2015, foreclosed, crime rate)

[swartzfeger]

All,

Considering a move to Ka'u, specifically Ocean View/HOVE/HOVR. My one question re: the area is crime.

I'm reconsidering after reading this recent article:

http://hawaiitribune-herald.com/news/local-news/ocean-view-residents-give-mayor-earful-crime-engulfing-neighborhoods

Every place has its issues of course, but wanted to hear from locals and people in the know. Everything is anecdotal until it happens to us personally, I suppose, but any feedback pro or con is appreciated.

mahalo and thanks in advance!

[davephan]

Originally Posted by swartzfeger

All,

Considering a move to Ka'u, specifically Ocean View/HOVE/HOVR. My one question re: the area is crime.

I'm reconsidering after reading this recent article:

Ocean View residents give mayor earful on crime engulfing neighborhoods | Hawaii Tribune-Herald

Every place has its issues of course, but wanted to hear from locals and people in the know. Everything is anecdotal until it happens to us personally, I suppose, but any feedback pro or con is appreciated.

mahalo and thanks in advance!

That's an interesting story about the crime problems. The link was hard to open, so I reposted the link.

http://http://hawaiitribune-herald.c...-neighborhoods

There are many reasons the crime problems are so bad. The root of the problem is not lack of water or things to keep the young people busy, who are bored. The root of the problem is liberalism. There isn't the will to crack down on criminals. Liberals want to "understand" and "coddle" the criminals, instead of locking them up and throwing away the key. The criminals don't want to work, they want to steal and commit crimes. The criminals laugh at their victims. Yet, the liberals keep coming up with stupid ideas to solve the crime problems by adding another well so that there will be more drinking water. Vigilante ideas were mentioned, which is a solution, but not legal. The third comment to the story talked about adopting a "stand your ground" law, which would really help.

I don't think your going to see the crime problems be solved any time soon. Crime is only going to get worse. The solution is to crack down severely on the criminals, which the librials are unwilling to do. Meanwhile, the criminals are free to continue committing crimes.

[davephan]

The previous repost didn't work correctly, so I tried it again. Copy and paste don't always work well with an I-phone verses a desktop computer.

Ocean View residents give mayor earful on crime engulfing neighborhoods | Hawaii Tribune-Herald

The Hawaii Tribune story talked about a lot of angry people, and the crime problems. But no one seemed to have a responsible solution. I found it amazing that someone thought having an additional well for more drinking water would 'cure' the crime problems. What they need is law and order. You'll probably find that a relatively small number of criminals are walking crime sprees that are causing the crime problems. Once the criminals starting being killed in commission of their crimes by homeowners, or sentenced to seriously long periods in prisons, the crime problems will decrease.

The youth shouldn't need to be 'coddled' either. When I was young, before the Internet, I learned very quickly to never ever say I was bored. If I ever said I was bored, I was put to work doing some sort of chores. Cleaning, raking leaving, cutting grass, shoveling snow, there were always jobs my parents could easily find that needed to be done.

I really don't think there is going to be a reduction in the crime, at least in those areas of the Big Island, because of the underlying problem where most of the population has the mindset where the criminals need to be "coddled", instead of punished. The solution for an individual that still wants to live on the Big Island is to spend more money and live in an area where crime enforcement is better, although the crime enforcement is probably still far less than it should be due to the underlying systemic liberal attitudes.

[Arktikos]

Originally Posted by davephan

The root of the problem is liberalism. There isn't the will to crack down on criminals. Liberals want to "understand" and "coddle" the criminals, instead of locking them up and throwing away the key..

Hundreds of people show up to complain about a lack of police presence, and you conclude that they're all about "coddling" criminals?
Clearly these people want the criminals arrested. Better yet would be for the crimes not to be committed in the first place, which is why they're brainstorming other ideas.

[Jonah K]

Originally Posted by davephan

The root of the problem is liberalism. There isn't the will to crack down on criminals. Liberals want to "understand" and "coddle" the criminals, instead of locking them up and throwing away the key.

The root of the problem is not "liberalism" -- it's the lack of adequate financial resources to keep the criminals behind bars.
The cost to house a prisoner in Hawaii may surprise you | KHON2
Why Liberals and Conservatives Are Both Wrong on Crime - Reason.com

Originally Posted by davephan

Once the criminals starting being killed in commission of their crimes by homeowners, or sentenced to seriously long periods in prisons, the crime problems will decrease.

Unless it's in "self-defense," homeowners killing folks that are committing property crimes creates more problems than it solves.
HRS §703-304 -- Use of force in self-protection

[67Cam]

Originally Posted by davephan

The previous repost didn't work correctly, so I tried it again. Copy and paste don't always work well with an I-phone verses a desktop computer.

Ocean View residents give mayor earful on crime engulfing neighborhoods | Hawaii Tribune-Herald

The Hawaii Tribune story talked about a lot of angry people, and the crime problems. But no one seemed to have a responsible solution. I found it amazing that someone thought having an additional well for more drinking water would 'cure' the crime problems. What they need is law and order. You'll probably find that a relatively small number of criminals are walking crime sprees that are causing the crime problems. Once the criminals starting being killed in commission of their crimes by homeowners, or sentenced to seriously long periods in prisons, the crime problems will decrease.

The youth shouldn't need to be 'coddled' either. When I was young, before the Internet, I learned very quickly to never ever say I was bored. If I ever said I was bored, I was put to work doing some sort of chores. Cleaning, raking leaving, cutting grass, shoveling snow, there were always jobs my parents could easily find that needed to be done.

I really don't think there is going to be a reduction in the crime, at least in those areas of the Big Island, because of the underlying problem where most of the population has the mindset where the criminals need to be "coddled", instead of punished. The solution for an individual that still wants to live on the Big Island is to spend more money and live in an area where crime enforcement is better, although the crime enforcement is probably still far less than it should be due to the underlying systemic liberal attitudes.

What a giant, steaming crock of you know what. By your logic then there is no crime in cities or states that are considered Conservative. There is always a danger in quoting statistics and studies because bias can be added. This looks to be a well rounded, thorough study analyzing FBI statistics. Interesting how 8 or 9 of the most violent states are Red.

The Most Dangerous States in America - 24/7 Wall St.

"The violent crime rate increased in all of the nation’s most dangerous states. In seven of the 10 states, the violent crime rate increased faster than the nationwide uptick of 3.0% between 2014 and 2015. In Alaska, Missouri, and Alabama, the increase exceeded 10%."

I realize a forum is a place for discussion and ideas, but the bias drivel you spout is indicative of the "alternative facts" gleaned from Alternative "news" sources that are relentlessly inundating us.

[Dreaming of Hawaii]

The OP said that he/she wanted to hear "from locals and people in the know". Davephan is neither -- I think he's visited the BI once or twice, and MAY have driven past Ocean View. Dave, when someone asks from information from locals, please let the locals respond. Quoting from one article written about one town hall meeting does not make your knowledgeable about the area. And I wish you had kept your opinionated political views out of it. Where did you come up with this crap about "most of the people have the mindset to coddle criminals"? Horse snot!

I don't live in Ocean View, but I live about twenty miles down the road. Yes, Ocean View does have a big problem with burglaries and theft. I think part of the problem is that HOVE is 10,000 one-acre lots, some of which has been built on. So houses are very spread apart. Add to that the large number of second homes and/or foreclosed homes, and there's just too much to patrol. Some houses are so tucked away in the woods that they can't be seen from the street. Here where I live in Discovery Harbour we have a very effective neighborhood watch patrol, but our lots are 1/3 acre and all can be clearly seen from the street. We all know each other pretty well and know when something is not right with someone' house.

There are a lot of poor people and drugs in the area and, yes, I think that most of the problem is people looking for an easy buck. I've heard that most of these property crimes are being committed by locals, and they have ways of finding empty houses. And they know that it takes the cops a half hour to get there, once someone calls. Without a larger police presence, this problem is not going away.

[hotzcatz]

HOVE pretty much has the same problems as most of Puna, especially the big half build subdivisions where there's a lot of spread apart houses and such. Until the residents band together and get a Neighborhood Watch, the problem will pretty much remain.

Combine a lack of jobs along with a lot of vacation houses just sitting empty, and you end up with thefts all over the place. Once they get used to stealing, then they'll progress on to thefts from houses which have people living in them.

[swartzfeger]

Thanks for all the thoughtful replies, everyone.

re: the first response from Dave, he's preaching to the choir... I'm practically Wolfowitz' and Dick Cheney's love child. Big-ish conservative/libertarian hybrid. The responses of 'more water' or after school programs ad nauseam usually make me lol. Then again, I didn't pay for four years of college and get my brain fried by Noam Chomsky and Howard Zinn, so I'm probably too ignorant to see the benefit of a cradle to grave nanny state.

THAT SAID...

Always trying to be reasonable, 'liberalism' isn't the problem here. And going Ted Nugent on people breaking into your home isn't a solution. Mopping up the remains of a burglar from your lanai isn't solving anything.

I was just curious, after reading the article, if it was accurate or even in the ballpark. And it sounds like it (mostly) is.

Not enough police. Lots of vacant homes. Opportunity + drugs + human nature et voila!, HOVE. Doesn't sound like Midnight Youth basketball programs or keeping a loaded shotgun by your front door really confront what's going on.

I realize we're moving to a very blue state. I'd have an easier time owning a giraffe on the Big Island compared to a gun. My libertarian tendencies are my own, and only my own -- I've got to respect the way things are done in my new adopted home. Which in the case of HOVE doesn't sound like much if anything is being done at all. But I can't go Rambo in Ka'u, either. If I was that concerned with stand your ground, castle laws, etc, I'd probably move to Alaska or Texas or wherever.

So... I'm *probably* going to consider focusing a little further north along the coast, like Miloli'i or Captain Cook.

And I'm leaving my Glock behind on the mainland!

[67Cam]

Originally Posted by swartzfeger

Thanks for all the thoughtful replies, everyone.

re: the first response from Dave, he's preaching to the choir... I'm practically Wolfowitz' and Dick Cheney's love child. Big-ish conservative/libertarian hybrid. The responses of 'more water' or after school programs ad nauseam usually make me lol. Then again, I didn't pay for four years of college and get my brain fried by Noam Chomsky and Howard Zinn, so I'm probably too ignorant to see the benefit of a cradle to grave nanny state.

THAT SAID...

Always trying to be reasonable, 'liberalism' isn't the problem here. And going Ted Nugent on people breaking into your home isn't a solution. Mopping up the remains of a burglar from your lanai isn't solving anything.

I was just curious, after reading the article, if it was accurate or even in the ballpark. And it sounds like it (mostly) is.

Not enough police. Lots of vacant homes. Opportunity + drugs + human nature et voila!, HOVE. Doesn't sound like Midnight Youth basketball programs or keeping a loaded shotgun by your front door really confront what's going on.

I realize we're moving to a very blue state. I'd have an easier time owning a giraffe on the Big Island compared to a gun. My libertarian tendencies are my own, and only my own -- I've got to respect the way things are done in my new adopted home. Which in the case of HOVE doesn't sound like much if anything is being done at all. But I can't go Rambo in Ka'u, either. If I was that concerned with stand your ground, castle laws, etc, I'd probably move to Alaska or Texas or wherever.

So... I'm *probably* going to consider focusing a little further north along the coast, like Miloli'i or Captain Cook.

And I'm leaving my Glock behind on the mainland!

I would suggest doing a little research. You can own a gun in Hawaii. You can bring one with you. You just have to register it. Less than 5 min of Google search and you can find this out. The issue youll have is there are no gun ranges on the big island to shoot. Not legal ones anyway.