$2000 to connect to grid again... Should I just go solar? (real estate, loan)

[Arktikos]

My advice is to definitely go solar and skip the generator.

[hotzcatz]

Originally Posted by hapci534

It's not just the $2K connection racket, solar may also annihilate the monthly electricity bill. I come out almost even with grid power costs when I run the eu2000i daily for 12 hours. If solar panels can replace just half of the eu2000i Amp hours, I just cut my energy costs 50%. And, running solar panels is quite automated, I heard, it's the charge controller that takes care of the mundane chores?

Yup. When we were entirely off grid, we just had the solar panels, the charge controller, battery bank and inverter. The generator was only run for heavy loads or if there hadn't been sun for awhile. The batteries were just deep cycle lead acid batteries from Costco and they were replaced about every seven or eight years. We'd check the battery connections every couple of months and check battery water as well. The charge controller would keep them from over charging and the inverter kept them from getting too drained so they lasted a lot longer than batteries without charge controllers.

For the $2K, you could probably get about 2.5 to 3 kW of panels. That'd be enough to run a small house and cut the generator use way down.

We have 5.2 kW on the house here and always produce more power than we use. It's grid tie, so no batteries or generator since the $20 per month for the grid tie is cheaper than keeping batteries and a generator. It's a standard house as far as wiring and appliances go. The refrigerator is 24 cu. ft., freezer on top, ice maker in the freezer Energy Star fridge (our research came up with that as about the largest that could be run efficiently. Bigger than that, they use too much power.) The water heater is a huge electric one which is a backup for solar water, but we don't have the solar water installed yet. Washing machine, gas dryer, gas stove, assorted kitchen appliances, assorted house hold electronics and electric tools, nothing that uses a lot of power. The lights are LED and CFs.

[terracore]

Hotcatz where are you at? Do you get more / less sun than Pahoa?

The biggest problem I've encountered is designing a hybrid system that deals well with a cloud cover that is either constant or comes and goes. Fortunately, I found this product:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...b95ac3c5a6ee6d

It detects the battery voltage and automatically switches to grid power at the threshold one selects, and likewise for going back to solar. It's a brand new product. So new in fact that I have one of the first few units ever offered for sale. It works really well.

[hotzcatz]

Wouldn't most inverters have a similar sort of switch? Hmm, actually, if the house loads were run off the batteries and there was a battery charger that would kick in when the batteries got low, wouldn't that do the same thing? Have HECO power one outlet and that outlet run the battery charger? That would have the house suck the power from the battery bank first and then when that got low, then HECO power would kick in.

I'd guess less sun than Pahoa, perhaps, or maybe similar. We're up the Hamakua coast, been gray a lot lately. We still produce more power than we use, even with the gray though. My electrician buddy pushed us to get the system in under the old grid tie program so we give HECO one watt and we get back one watt. The HECO contracts have changed several times since then, not sure if we would have opted for this big system with the new contracts.

I think part of the trouble HECO has been having that's driving the changed contracts is there's all these solar systems giving them power now. However, that's during the day and most power use is in the evenings. Wish there was a storage system other than batteries or if they had 100% recyclable batteries.

[kauailover]

New cable/service line, new meter box (circuit panel?), mast repair, labor. For sure get another bid. But you'd be surprised the cost of the materials etc. I paid $550 to have 220v hot tub spa wired up. Just the wire was $150 of that.

[terracore]

"Wouldn't most inverters have a similar sort of switch? Hmm, actually, if the house loads were run off the batteries and there was a battery charger that would kick in when the batteries got low, wouldn't that do the same thing?"

Yes, it's called an inverter charger. Unfortunately, most of them are engineered as UPS units. In other words, by design they prioritize grid power over other sources. The big problem with them is that during the battery charging phase they turn AC current into DC current, which the inverter then eventually has to convert DC back into AC. Assuming the best possible efficiency rate of about 90%, that means 20% of power just gets wasted getting converted back and forth. Rarely, some models have a "reverse UPS" setting that prioritize the alternative energy source over the grid when available, but they still charge the batteries when they get low. That is because they are intended for 24/7 usage. My hybrid system circumvents this silliness because it doesn't bother trying to use any alternative energy during the hours when there isn't any sunshine:

Night time? 100% grid. Day time? Use solar. Not enough solar? Use grid. Solar came back? Use solar. No losses in converting AC current into DC. Power out due to hurricane? External battery charger to charge batteries while generator is running.

[hapci534]

Originally Posted by hotzcatz

That $2K seems rather a bit high for that amount of work.

My hunch is, the electrical company loses a lot more customers to this $2K racket than to lava. If it doesn't bother them, more power for them (literally )... every service has a life cycle anyway. Just 20 years ago, we'd all go to a company to print something in color, and look now.

[hotzcatz]

Hmm, how is this project divided up, anyway? Generally, the homeowner's electrician sets the meter socket, the circuit breaker box and the mast for the incoming power lines. That electrician also does the house wiring and everything on the house side of the main breaker box. HECO comes in with the meter and puts that in the meter socket and puts the wires between the meter box and the power pole out in the road. I think they allow up to 150' from the pole in the road to the house before they start charging more, don't they?

So, if you're talking to a regular electrician, they're only going to be doing the mast bracing (which could also be done by a handyperson or a contractor since that's not actually an electrical thing. Somewhat like the wall a light switch is installed on isn't built by the electrician.) So, anyway, the electrician is on the house side of the meter socket (along with that support mast) while HECO does everything on the other side of the meter socket.

So is your electrician charging $2K or is HECO charging $2K or is their combined billing that amount?

[terracore]

"I think they allow up to 150' from the pole in the road to the house before they start charging more, don't they?"

Yes, but if the pole is on the other side of the street you lose 40-60 feet from road/easement?

"HECO"

Wrong island: Helco.

"Hmm, how is this project divided up, anyway? Generally, the homeowner's electrician sets the meter socket, the circuit breaker box and the mast for the incoming power lines."

Can the homeowner install the mast? And if so, what is the minimum size?

Just throwing something out there, but if you plan on having trees or surviving hurricanes, you might want to look into the cost of running the power line underground if the overhead is already kaput. If the house is within the distance Hotcatz mentioned maybe the (slightly?) extra cost will be worth it.

[hotzcatz]

Oh, yup, it is HELCO (Hawaii Electric Light Company). We have a lot of HECO (Hawaiian Electric Company) stock and just write one check a year to HELCO to pay for the minimum monthly connection charges so I pay more attention to HECO than HELCO.

The homeowner could probably install the mast, although I haven't a clue what size it should be and I'd not announce to HELCO that it is an owner installed mast, just tell them there's one there?