Why do people put down Birmingham, AL? (Bessemer, Mountain Brook: Home Depot, place to live)

[mrkool]

Originally Posted by Hockey92

their more racist than new englanders down there

You are talking about the black racism (often resulting in violent crime) against whites, right?

[cpg35223]

Originally Posted by RunDMC

I've always thought white-black relatons were better in the south just b/c there are more blacks in the south and white and black kids grow up with each other. I bet you find more racists in lily white states like Vermont than in the south.

I would agree with that. I heard the N word at an in-law's wedding in Chicago than I've heard in all my years in Alabama. And these were white-collar professional types.

[Iconographer]

Originally Posted by mrkool

You are talking about the black racism (often resulting in violent crime) against whites, right?

Statistically, this is a relatively rare occurrence. So is white on black crime. The majority of violent crime is either black on black or white on white.

[cpg35223]

Originally Posted by IndieIndy

If you`re going to correct someone do it right, it should be "there are".

Perhaps you should probably dash hither to your own Little Brown Handbook. If you're going to correct one's grammar, you should at least know how to use a proper apostrophe and to put the ending period of the sentence within the quotation mark.

[raj kapoor]

The city can't represent the 'old south' as it was settled and founded after the Civil War. It is the youngest of the large Southern cities. The fact that our historical buildings were not torn down in the seventies like in most up and coming cities of the 'new south', gives Birmingham a truly urban texture. One can see the decades of development intermingling instead of a city that was all built five years ago.
If one travels through town without seeing what the city is about then I would assume that their goal was simply to pass through. I did this recently on my way to the Carolinas and I would point out that there is nothing on the length of I-20 in Atlanta that would make me think it has nice suburbs on the north side, or even that I would want to get off of the freeway. One's perception is dependent on educating one's self on the places through which they travel.
The interstate system is a very poor way to see America's cities. I usually like to get some feel of where I am along the way of a road trip. I make a point of looking over a map. (if one looks at a map of Birmingham, just briefly, they would find the majority of the urbanized area is south of Red Mountain. So, it is up to individuals to determine what they know of a place and if they don't make that small effort it seems ludicrous to go to the effort of critiquing the city that they have not even bothered to check on a map.

Racism is mostly a projection onto the city from other places. This is the second decade of the twenty-first century. Birmingham and all of America's cities live under the same laws and people have migrated all over the country and from all over the world. It would be naïve to assume much difference in the social attitudes in cities of over a million people. (small towns would be an exception I am sure) I find more white racism in Cobb County Georgia than here. And I certainly find more black racism in Fulton County Georgia than here. There is a refreshing integrity to the way we show our feelings to each other here. I personally find the strongest racially motivated actions to be dismissal of people who do not want to participate on a level playing field. People are too economically driven to give much credence to the old 'pitty/payback' game. (don't confuse that with heartfelt and honest charity. Birmingham is in the top ten of charitable giving each year in America)

To close my view on the above comments; I would say that many people have skewed concepts of what makes a prosperous and appealing city in which to live. Many seem to need sixty story bldgs., or twenty Targets instead of just ten, or forty Home Depots instead of fifteen. Four different pro sports teams.
I would say if one passes through a city and makes no effort to find out what is there then you just have no true interest, so why comment. If one does decide to find out what a place is about then they will get off the freeways and find the local 'haunts'. Great restaurants , unique shops, some of the most gorgeous scenery from areas like Bluff Park and Oak Mountain, (on high) to the lower areas of the beautiful creek beds of Mountain Brook.

It always seems to appall some of our friends in Atlanta that I don't particularly care for it. As a person of Indian derivation, I have found people there to be superficially friendly and mostly they seem to attempt some type of condescension as if by looking different one would not understand what they are saying . Duh? But beyond the people, who after all are from many places, the city itself has just out grown its skin and I don't like the tight fit. But I don't hate it and I know where the things are that are worthwhile. (not just more of the same piled on) I travel a lot and have not been to a single city that did not have redeeming qualities. For this reason alone I know that when people condemn Birmingham, admittedly by only passing through, they are being neither fair or truthful.

We were not the "city too busy to hate;" but we are also not the "city too busy to care." We are a charming community of places that have something for everyone, everyone that wants to participate and contribute to the move forward.

raj

PS to the person who thinks that people here hate the Downtown area; you have exposed a great lack of knowledge about the city. 2013 will be remembered as the year that plans turned to reality. The community has never been more united behind our love of the historic character of our CBD and its evolution as a place to live and work and come together as neighbors.

[raj kapoor]

Originally Posted by Mutiny77

1) Civil Rights history
2) Alabama stigma
3) Lack of new downtown development (until relatively recently)

Atlanta Georgia:

1) the riots and burning in Underground Atlanta; the Olympic bombings
2) the 'ghetto rap'/cracker stigma
3) inability to develop real street life and neighborhoods in downtown like true cosmopolitan cities.
a) Turner Field area returning to the state it was in fifty years ago. (run down and soon to be empty)
b) Midtown sucking the life out of downtown due to the white versus black mentality

Every city has its lists.

raj

[raj kapoor]

Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415

Why? Brmingham is historically very racist. I don't doubt that there are lifelong locals who were alive before and during the Civil Rights Movement who are still racist, as well as their family members who may share their beliefs and were influenced by them. Assuming people are racist doesn't make one racist. It's not like we're picking people out of a crowd in Birmingham and saying - "you're racist!" Its just that it's likely there are people living there who are racist and have been for years, since Birmingham and the Deep South in general were badly segregated and deeply racist until just about 60 years ago or so. History like that doesn't just disappear in a few decades or one to two generations. Tensions may take much longer to recede. Hell, I think Newark, NJ is still a racial mess from the race riots in the 60s - and it's a northern city.

Anyway, I have genuinely never heard anything bad about Birmingham today.

Boston, among many cities of the north, most in fact, is known for racism of another and more insidious sort. (historically)
I would be wildly ignorant to make that statement about Boston of today. It is no more racist than any other typical American city. (don't people travel and get out, there are no gardens of Eden out there)

Racism is not something that is genetically coded. Can someone say that children and grandchildren grow up in agreement with their elders in the society. How naïve. America is on a level playing field on the subject and it does seem that northerners are more deluded by this than westerners or southerners.

If I choose to add more to this thread I will overlook this particular subject. It is very tiring for people from other places bringing this subject here, or turning every thread into a racial subject. The city functions far better than most on this subject. The metro statistics show this clearly. I don't know a city that can't use a little house cleaning but I do not come to those forums and make myself into the arbiter of all that is just.

A little travel with open eyes and open ears and this sort of discussion would happen a lot less.

raj

[NorthDeKalb]

Atlanta's ghettos are every bit as shot-out looking as Birmingham's, with far more vagrants. They're simply concealed much better behind an extra thick layer of vegetation, and noise barriers. Both of which I believe 20-59 needs desperately.

Every city has dirty laundry, but the truth is the entire Birmingham area is unfairly judged based on what people see along that stretch. It paints an inaccurate depiction of the metro's housing stock as a whole.

[aturner339]

I think more than anything people have a negative opinion about Birmingham because those from the Birmingham area allow and encourage it.

Yes most of the negative feelings are rooted in past and present day racism (no point in denying it) but it is only our own defeatism that allows these negative feelings to flourish.

Birmingham's citizens are by and large the same kind of decent hardworking people that make up the population of every corner of this country. That they have weathered decades of social strife and economic hardship should not be a mark of shame but of pride in a community that presses forward despite long odds.

I don't think we should sweep our history under the rug but it shouldn't make us negative. We should be proud of where we've come from.

[sleepless in Bham]

Originally Posted by Aficionado

Atlanta's ghettos are every bit as shot-out looking as Birmingham's, with far more vagrants. They're simply concealed much better behind an extra thick layer of vegetation, and noise barriers. Both of which I believe 20-59 needs desperately.

Every city has dirty laundry, but the truth is the entire Birmingham area is unfairly judged based on what people see along that stretch. It paints an inaccurate depiction of the metro's housing stock as a whole.

True Statement.

Originally Posted by aturner339

I think more than anything people have a negative opinion about Birmingham because those from the Birmingham area allow and encourage it.

Yes most of the negative feelings are rooted in past and present day racism (no point in denying it) but it is only our own defeatism that allows these negative feelings to flourish.

Birmingham's citizens are by and large the same kind of decent hardworking people that make up the population of every corner of this country. That they have weathered decades of social strife and economic hardship should not be a mark of shame but of pride in a community that presses forward despite long odds.

I don't think we should sweep our history under the rug but it shouldn't make us negative. We should be proud of where we've come from.

We cant continue to blame a dying but somehow still vocal minority for how those outside of Birmingham view this area. Also while it should be remember, we cant continue to look back on what Birmingham was and use it to chart a future for this metro. History is history, something we cant change, fix or make pretty.

Today and the future should be the most pressing issue for everybody in the Birmingham metro. The naysayers will eventually die off or move.