Black people in Birmingham (taxation, standard of living, zip code)

[SippiStateBulldogs]

Originally Posted by JS20000

Exactly; to make an argument such as this would be to completely ignore Black Wall Street (Tulsa), East St Louis, Harlem, or even Tuxedo Junction. If there was systematic "mental" slavery from the very beginning, then how did the black community ever manage to build successful communities so close to the end of slavery?

Agreed.

[SippiStateBulldogs]

Originally Posted by JS20000

This is my individual take on the issue, which is nonetheless valid as it illustrates both perspectives rather succinctly (everything does not need a textbook answer). Washington supported gradualist measures whereas DuBois (with his "Talented Tenth") urged for political activism with the educated elite at the helm to achieve these ends more immediately.



I should be asking have you read A.G. Gaston's biography ("Black Titan")? He was a VERY dedicated follower and believer in Washington's principles (his first ever purchase was a parcel of land). Several of Gaston's businesses were named for Washington. To say he's closer (ideologically) to DuBois is wholly inaccurate.

As an aside, the communists affiliated with "oppressed" groups in order to gain power through unending conflict, which inevitably brings change (one of their prime tenets). They support any presumably maligned group that wishes for "equality".

The communist party's influence amongst Black intellectuals and leaders from 1920 to 1970 is a topic of discussion for another thread as well.

[aturner339]

I don't think it's necessary to point out how silly it is to blame black poverty on their alignment with Democratic Party.

That's political nonsense and we all know it.

As to your example of black economic achievemet in the Pre Civil Rights era that's simply the exception that proves the rule.

The vast majority of blacks were deliberate kept poor by slavery and then by Jim Crow whose chief purpose was to deny African Americans access to advancement. That a few managed to slip passed the blockade does not change the fact that the vast majority were made poor by a deliberate choice of their country.

Blacks are poor because they were made poor on purpose. Not by democratics or republicans but by Americans in general.

50 years of legal equality cannot make up a 200 year economic handicap.

[SippiStateBulldogs]

Originally Posted by aturner339

I'm don't think it's necessary to point out how silly it is to blame black poverty on their alignment with Democratic Party.

That's political nonsense and we all know it.

As to your example of black economic achievemet in the Pre Civil Rights era that's simply the exception that proves the rule.

The vast majority of blacks were deliberate kept poor by slavery and then by Jim Crow whose chief purpose was to deny African Americans access to advancement. That a few managed to slip passed the blockade does not change the fact that the vast majority were made poor by a deliberate choice of their country.

Blacks are poor because they were made poor on purpose. Not by democratics or republicans but by Americans in general.

My main point though is that Blacks today are not poor because external factors have the authority to do so. We are free in 2014 the White man does not have the structural authority that they did during jim crow and slavery to keep us down. If it is done today it is solely because we allow it.

[southernyupp]

I have to agree with Aturner339. To say that so many blacks are poor today due to their own doing totally ignores history and assumes we all came to be spontaneously out of nowhere in a poor state of bieng.

[aturner339]

Economics doesn't work that way. Income mobility is heritable. The best indicator of a child future income is his or her parent's income.

We can't handicap the ancestors of a entire segment of our population and expect them to make up the capital difference through sheer grit. By impoverishing the grandparents we have impoverished the grandchildren.
Why Is the American Dream Dead in the South? - Atlantic Mobile

[Coseau]

There will always be poor people. The region in general because its was more of a agricultural based economy as opposed to a heavy industrial based economy was always gonna be near the bottom when measuring wealth and standards of living. Combined that with systematic racial discrimination and the political and business philosophy slanted heavily towards of making sure it stays a low wage exploitative economy i cannot see how poverty rates can be lowered. You cannot have a prosperous thriving economy if most of the people have very little surplus income to spend.

[SippiStateBulldogs]

Originally Posted by Coseau

There will always be poor people. The region in general because its was more of a agricultural based economy as opposed to a heavy industrial based economy was always gonna be near the bottom when measuring wealth and standards of living. Combined that with systematic racial discrimination and the political and business philosophy slanted heavily towards of making sure it stays a low wage exploitative economy i cannot see how poverty rates can be lowered. You cannot have a prosperous thriving economy if most of the people have very little surplus income to spend.

I agree. Jesus said the "the poor you will have always". Also the southern region does deal with the affects of a agricultural based economy historically. Blacks though live everywhere in the U.S. and urban Blacks have higher poverty rates as well. I personally believe our own behavior in 2014 is contributing more to our economic downfall than our historic injustices.

[SippiStateBulldogs]

Originally Posted by southernyupp

I have to agree with Aturner339. To say that so many blacks are poor today due to their own doing totally ignores history and assumes we all came to be spontaneously out of nowhere in a poor state of bieng.

I'm not going to bite

[aturner339]

The past is prelude to the present. This is particularly true in the economics of income distributions.

We as a nation baked black poverty into the economic cake for over 200 years. No amount of exhortations towards individual achievement can change that.

Economics is a social science not an individual one.