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The only differences I have noticed between middle class blacks in Birmingham and Atlanta is the potential for some of them to think they are better, "faster", or more cultured because they are from a bigger town. Somehow having a longer commute past taller buildings with a higher cost of living and the off chance that they might bump into a Falcon or Brave or Lil Wayne at the mall makes some people think they are better/different/smarter then someone else from a different place.
Yes there are differences in cities that can make a person of any race or background different from someone else particularly when comparing two wildly different places hundreds of miles apart. But to try to lay the blanket statement that Atlanta has a different class of middle class blacks across the board is just the same old BS that gets peddled when ever someone wants to put down a place they dont like. I am not blind to the fact that BET or Jet magazine or whoever is in charge of all things black has labeled Atlanta the black mecca for black urban professionals but it doesn't add dollars to your paycheck or enrich your life - it just is a one way for a city to market itself in this MTV twitter verse world we live in.
The differences are real and not concocted - from the guy on the street to the executive level.
Do you think there might be a brighter black middle class in NYC ?? more experienced ? less parochial ?? I think SO. That's my personal experience.
Whether anyone really likes it or not, there is a "pecking order", and professional blacks in Atlanta are living that. It's not a mirage, it's very very real. The same thing applies to DC area...I guess some nitwits would want to assert that the black middle class in Birmingham is congruent to the black middle class surrounding DC.....laughable.
Differences do exist, and all of the rationalization or excuses don't matter. The real world always suggests some truth. Nasty medicine for some to swallow, but tough luck, it's true.
Gee. Look whos back with a new screen name.
No one is talking about NYC and no one is talking about executives. Way different set of rules and conditions then a southern city. Theres no pecking order and someone from DC or Atlanta working a typical middle class job and is black is no better then anyone here nor does it make for a dramatically different life. Dream on.
I had to run errands after lunch and bid farewell to the thread. I check in now and find this character was on here posting another FIVE AND A HALF HOURS.
I can't even conceive of the obsessive nature of such a person.
I love the part about what I 'observe is just based on my beliefs'. On the other hand according to this person, what they 'observe is based on fact due to accumulated wisdom'.
I do believe that most people are very much the same at the core. Now, however, I am willing to accept that there is one very obvious exception, and I came in contact with 'it' today.
Through with this thread, nothing productive going on here.
I don't know about the black middle class in both cities being "different" per-se on a individual basis.
The fact that the black middle class in the Atlanta metro is percentage wise larger and more entrenched in the metro's social life does make some things about it different in Atlanta in the fact that you see blacks involved in just about anything in significant numbers, but person to person I don't think it would be different.
The blacks from a larger city might be more "hip" but that is for any large city.
I think that is the confusion going on when someone mention the black middle class being "different" in each city.
I always cringe when I see posts and threads with titles that include the words, 'black' and 'white'. They seem to attract black and white viewpoints, as in there are no grey areas in life. LIFE IS MOSTLY GREY. I am not writing about the color of people here, but their attitudes.
We have many obsessed people from Atlanta 'METRO' that come to the forum to discharge some anger and frustration and perhaps a little vendetta. I don't know why. I find if one is living in a place they like and have a productive life that expending the effort to do so is ludicrous.
Many are like you who claim to be ex-patriots and yet seem the most antagonized by all things Birmingham.
Your knowledge of Birmingham is very limited and that is probably a good thing for you. I will point out that all but Hoover were in existence long before 'white flight' had begun or the term even used. And I will point out the term was not coined for Birmingham. It is a term that has been used to describe an American phenomenon that has occurred in EVERY single city in America. (including your Atlanta; Cobb, north Fulton, and beyond)
Atlanta has a large population spread over a disproportionate area of north Georgia. For this reason it has an exceptionally large black population that is diluted by the much whiter counties in the far flung areas of the metro. We will never have the number of poor and under educated black people that you have in Atlanta, which even surpasses New Orleans and Memphis. It is sad that those people in Atlanta are so easily overlooked by all the economic progress that transpired there in the past fifty years.
The black people moving into metro Birmingham are coming here for medical and other tech jobs, such as auto manufacturing. It is an insult for anyone to suggests that black people are somehow not in a position to choose directions in their lives. Of course there are cultural differences among various peoples. One can say self segregation, but in reality no one is seeking segregation is just often occurs when one is focused on their own interests.
For this reason there are many organizations that exists for the good works they do, but to also ensure that we don't forget to acknowledge and interact with each other in a manner of friendship and civic pride.
Outsiders such as yourself see things in such a static way. It is amazing that you would not expect that in a city that had an even harder time than many others in adjusting to the social changes of the fifties and sixties that we would not be particularly sensitive to the needs to heal and nurture the relationships that exist between the populace and various geographical areas of the metro.
As I posted up thread, it would be so nice if we did not have to speak in black and white so much and focus on what we are doing TOGETHER, of which there is so much in Birmingham. Even more important though, would be that when a thread is relevant to 'black or white' , people from the outside don't feel the need to come here and try to analyze and dissect us as if we aren't as capable of building a city as someone else.
We are excited as we are in a time of growth and gentrification. We can and do look to sister cities in the south and elsewhere for inspiration. And yes, we even look to Atlanta. But we also see many mistakes that we don't want to make. Unfortunately the decades of Atlanta's boom were not some of the kindest in terms of urban renewal. We have a chance to avoid building things like Gwinett County and allowing urban zoning to destroy areas that were once quite beautiful on the northside. Zoning was a big failure in Atlanta, because of the adoption of 'growth at any cost'.
This is a long post and I apologize. I had not intended to post on this thread from the beginning because the title offends me a bit. But I felt that some things should be said . This is a new city the people here are not the people of sixty years ago, and like anywhere, many areas of town hardly have a native. From what I read it is good that many native left, especially the ones who went to Atlanta.
Apples and oranges? You bet, we're sweet and you are bitter.
I think many people on this thread insult black people in Birmingham. They are an intrinsic part of a larger community and they know their own strengths and weaknesses . They don't need other people speaking for them. That was done for far too long.
Happy New Year,
raj
Good grief. Where do I begin.
I think you are saw something in my response that wasn't' there. My response wasn't meant to be an insult to black people in Birmingham. I am a black man that was born and raise in the CITY of Birmingham (Powderly to be exact). I was in Birmingham this past weekend.
You stated "It is an insult for anyone to suggests that black people are somehow not in a position to choose directions in their lives." I don't recall saying anything like this. I was responding to the OP. Blacks in Birmingham are mostly poor to working class with a few middle class Blacks spread out over the city. Some of them stay because they can't go anywhere while others choose to stay. The ones who choose to leave, leave. Those are the facts. It has nothing to do with insulting anyone. And yes from my observation, many of the black transplants in Atlanta are culturally different. I'm not saying one is better than the other. On the other hand, I think the native Atlanta blacks are no different from the blacks in Birmingham.
My remarks address all of the comments before me not just yours. So some things would not be relative to your post.
With you, as with a number of others I am always amazed at how one can think of something as being a local phenomenon.
You say whites left the CITY like that did not happen in every major American city in the 60s and 70s. How do you think that so many cities in our country are half as large as they once were? Many more whites moved to Cobb and north Fulton in Atlanta in that time period than left Birmingham. Did you ever wonder why Atlanta's city population has been all but stagnant until the last five to ten years. The people moving in were only replacing the people who had and still are moving out. It is balancing. This in a metro with staggering population growth and yet the city, not so.
No, what you say does not bother me so much as that you say it as if it is some how unique to Birmingham. It is either naïve or it is malicious when people pop up on this forum with these issues that are not so relevant to what we are doing in Birmingham today. Others may live in the past but as a community we have decided that has not been working for us , white or black. But many around us want to suggest that we can't move on. Sorry, but we are doing just that.
As a self proclaimed black person (how could I know) you should see the irony of a thread on a forum discussing BLACK PEOPLE IN BIRMINGHAM. I've never seen a thread like that for other groups. First, it gives no up front idea of what it is about leading to the traffic it is getting because it is puzzling and inflammatory.
So, again I will say that I am just going to not click on this thread, it can't possibly be constructive and has interested very few LOCAL PEOPLE.
Believe me, you have some big issues in Atlanta. It won't be the first city that had the 'pie in sky' boom mentality that fell to the bottom all in just fifty years. You don't have to look to Detroit or St. Louis or others, just look to the south and Gwinnett County and much of DeKalb County and you will see Atlanta's future.
The dream does not work for every person, white or black, that comes there. Once that sinks in it feels more like a trap that an opportunity. (unless you want to wait tables and carry luggage all of your life)
Again, the thread is demeaning to black people and if anyone doesn't get that then at least they are not being harmed.
My remarks address all of the comments before me not just yours. So some things would not be relative to your post.
With you, as with a number of others I am always amazed at how one can think of something as being a local phenomenon.
No, what you say does not bother me so much as that you say it as if it is some how unique to Birmingham. It is either naïve or it is malicious when people pop up on this forum with these issues that are not so relevant to what we are doing in Birmingham today. Others may live in the past but as a community we have decided that has not been working for us , white or black. But many around us want to suggest that we can't move on. Sorry, but we are doing just that.
Well if it wasn't aimed at my post, then address it to the right person.
An earlier poster stated the reason why you don't see a lot of blacks all over Birmingham (they meant the suburbs) was because blacks in Birmingham self-segregated themselves. I stated how is it possible for blacks to self-segregated themselves if it was the choice of whites to leave in the 60's and the 70's. Nowhere in my post did I state white flight is unique to Birmingham and I didn't make a negative comment about blacks in Birmingham.
My remarks address all of the comments before me not just yours. So some things would not be relative to your post.
With you, as with a number of others I am always amazed at how one can think of something as being a local phenomenon.
You say whites left the CITY like that did not happen in every major American city in the 60s and 70s. How do you think that so many cities in our country are half as large as they once were? Many more whites moved to Cobb and north Fulton in Atlanta in that time period than left Birmingham. Did you ever wonder why Atlanta's city population has been all but stagnant until the last five to ten years. The people moving in were only replacing the people who had and still are moving out. It is balancing. This in a metro with staggering population growth and yet the city, not so.
No, what you say does not bother me so much as that you say it as if it is some how unique to Birmingham. It is either naïve or it is malicious when people pop up on this forum with these issues that are not so relevant to what we are doing in Birmingham today. Others may live in the past but as a community we have decided that has not been working for us , white or black. But many around us want to suggest that we can't move on. Sorry, but we are doing just that.
As a self proclaimed black person (how could I know) you should see the irony of a thread on a forum discussing BLACK PEOPLE IN BIRMINGHAM. I've never seen a thread like that for other groups. First, it gives no up front idea of what it is about leading to the traffic it is getting because it is puzzling and inflammatory.
So, again I will say that I am just going to not click on this thread, it can't possibly be constructive and has interested very few LOCAL PEOPLE.
Believe me, you have some big issues in Atlanta. It won't be the first city that had the 'pie in sky' boom mentality that fell to the bottom all in just fifty years. You don't have to look to Detroit or St. Louis or others, just look to the south and Gwinnett County and much of DeKalb County and you will see Atlanta's future.
The dream does not work for every person, white or black, that comes there. Once that sinks in it feels more like a trap that an opportunity. (unless you want to wait tables and carry luggage all of your life)
Again, the thread is demeaning to black people and if anyone doesn't get that then at least they are not being harmed.
I was almost about respect this opinion until I saw you try to compare Atlanta to Detroit. Or even insinuate that the city or metro is declining . Then you have the nerve to say Dekalb and Gwinnett are in trouble and declining? Lol wut?
Birmingham is nice city and you should defend it but that biased stuff above is laughable. You aren't fooling anyone actually familiar with both cities.
So you talk about this thread being demeaning to blacks, then you try to say Atlanta is going to become Detroit? You're only saying that because Atlanta currently has a decent number of blacks.
Atlanta has one of the most diverse economies in the entire country. Detroit was reliant and built on the auto industry which has taken several hits over the past century or so. It also didn't help that the city is an extreme example of what 'white flight of the 50s-70s' did.
But if you want to use black people as an argument for Atlanta's future. Check this out. Atlanta's black population is dropping every year while it's white population continues to increase. The reason for Atlanta's stagnant population is as you said. Whites are replacing the blacks that are moving out of the city and into the suburbs. While those south and western neighborhoods are 'de-densifying', the Eastern and central neighborhoods continue to flourish and densify.
It's not as simple as to compare Atlanta to Birmingham or Detroit. These are completely different circumstances and scenarios. It's lazy and naive to do that.
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. Then you have the nerve to say Dekalb and Gwinnett are in trouble and declining? Lol wut?
