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Look I've used this thread as a way to discuss serious issues that are of interest to me and might (I hope) be of some interest to others but I'm not oblivious to the fact that this thread was intended to be an act of trolling (deftly defused by some of our regulars)
So to continue the de-trolling I will sum up the most recent post by saying that the idea that Birmingham's de facto racial segregation is due to the "self-segregation" of its black population is quite possibly the silliest thing I have ever heard.
If you are going to race troll at least make the racist arguments feasible ones.
I do not think the people are "trolling" you. I really see no trolling going on here. I think what you see here is that people are responding to your post as this is an open forum. You must except that the replies you get won't always be what you want to hear. Many people truly just want to know why this is an issue. I personally didn't have a problem with YOUR post, but many of the replies that followed were pretty ridiculous. I think your question is your question and you have the right to ask, but I will be real, some of these analytic responses to your question are hilarious because I can't believe we sit around and wonder about these things. But your question is a question of social-science and those questions sometimes need to be asked.
I always cringe when I see posts and threads with titles that include the words, 'black' and 'white'. They seem to attract black and white viewpoints, as in there are no grey areas in life. LIFE IS MOSTLY GREY. I am not writing about the color of people here, but their attitudes.
We have many obsessed people from Atlanta 'METRO' that come to the forum to discharge some anger and frustration and perhaps a little vendetta. I don't know why. I find if one is living in a place they like and have a productive life that expending the effort to do so is ludicrous.
Many are like you who claim to be ex-patriots and yet seem the most antagonized by all things Birmingham.
Your knowledge of Birmingham is very limited and that is probably a good thing for you. I will point out that all but Hoover were in existence long before 'white flight' had begun or the term even used. And I will point out the term was not coined for Birmingham. It is a term that has been used to describe an American phenomenon that has occurred in EVERY single city in America. (including your Atlanta; Cobb, north Fulton, and beyond)
Atlanta has a large population spread over a disproportionate area of north Georgia. For this reason it has an exceptionally large black population that is diluted by the much whiter counties in the far flung areas of the metro. We will never have the number of poor and under educated black people that you have in Atlanta, which even surpasses New Orleans and Memphis. It is sad that those people in Atlanta are so easily overlooked by all the economic progress that transpired there in the past fifty years.
The black people moving into metro Birmingham are coming here for medical and other tech jobs, such as auto manufacturing. It is an insult for anyone to suggests that black people are somehow not in a position to choose directions in their lives. Of course there are cultural differences among various peoples. One can say self segregation, but in reality no one is seeking segregation is just often occurs when one is focused on their own interests.
For this reason there are many organizations that exists for the good works they do, but to also ensure that we don't forget to acknowledge and interact with each other in a manner of friendship and civic pride.
Outsiders such as yourself see things in such a static way. It is amazing that you would not expect that in a city that had an even harder time than many others in adjusting to the social changes of the fifties and sixties that we would not be particularly sensitive to the needs to heal and nurture the relationships that exist between the populace and various geographical areas of the metro.
As I posted up thread, it would be so nice if we did not have to speak in black and white so much and focus on what we are doing TOGETHER, of which there is so much in Birmingham. Even more important though, would be that when a thread is relevant to 'black or white' , people from the outside don't feel the need to come here and try to analyze and dissect us as if we aren't as capable of building a city as someone else.
We are excited as we are in a time of growth and gentrification. We can and do look to sister cities in the south and elsewhere for inspiration. And yes, we even look to Atlanta. But we also see many mistakes that we don't want to make. Unfortunately the decades of Atlanta's boom were not some of the kindest in terms of urban renewal. We have a chance to avoid building things like Gwinett County and allowing urban zoning to destroy areas that were once quite beautiful on the northside. Zoning was a big failure in Atlanta, because of the adoption of 'growth at any cost'.
This is a long post and I apologize. I had not intended to post on this thread from the beginning because the title offends me a bit. But I felt that some things should be said . This is a new city the people here are not the people of sixty years ago, and like anywhere, many areas of town hardly have a native. From what I read it is good that many native left, especially the ones who went to Atlanta.
Apples and oranges? You bet, we're sweet and you are bitter.
I think many people on this thread insult black people in Birmingham. They are an intrinsic part of a larger community and they know their own strengths and weaknesses . They don't need other people speaking for them. That was done for far too long.
There are some things in life that you just should not analyze and care about. The way different groups handle a movie-viewing experience is one of them. I just so happened to stumble upon this thread because it was on the first page of the forums. Why would you even take the time to think about how specific groups of people act during a movie? Doesn't that seem a little strange to you?
Are you serious??? STUMBLE is right. Apparently you completely missed the concept that I had invested thousands of dollars of my personal money and hundreds of hours of work to make that theatre viable again. Why would I take time to think about the audience? I ask again, are you serious why I wouldn't be concerned about the habits of the people that were the customer base? Millions, if not billions of dollars in market research are spent in the movie industry to analyze demographics, the subject matter of movies, and which locations can even support a theatre.
The project didn't work. I lost thousands but learned probably three times as much as if I had spent the same amount of money in college. My errors were my own and I learned form them.
This is one of the few times I am having a hard time resisting an ad hom attack or a string of pejoratives, I find your post that twisted.
You say whites left the CITY like that did not happen in every major American city in the 60s and 70s. How do you think that so many cities in our country are half as large as they once were? Many more whites moved to Cobb and north Fulton in Atlanta in that time period than left Birmingham. Did you ever wonder why Atlanta's city population has been all but stagnant until the last five to ten years. The people moving in were only replacing the people who had and still are moving out. It is balancing. This in a metro with staggering population growth and yet the city, not so.
That's a bit out of date. The city of Atlanta has been losing black residents for the last 30 years and consistently gaining whites.
The city proper has also been growing at a good clip for the past two decades. There's been massive development in Buckhead and Midtown, both of which have developed skylines that would put most cities in the shade. More recently downtown Atlanta has also been resurgent, with a new streetcar and a host of new projects coming online.
the only people who do this "atlanta is the next detroit" business are racists and those that read racially-motivated news sources online. i have only heard it from racists and don't hear it anywhere else. just google "is atlanta the next detroit" and pretty much all you will see are white supremacist websites.
atlanta and detroit are really not alike at all. the only two comparisons i can make are the racial composition, majority black, and the fact that there is a smaller urban core surrounded by a lot of single family homes.
there are a lot of reasons atlanta won't become the next detroit, but the primary reasons are that atlanta's economy is more diverse than detroit's, which was based entirely on the automobile industry, a specific subset of the manufacturing industry, and secondly, atlanta has already hit bottom. if you were familiar with atlanta and saw the rapid decline of our single-family neighbourhoods in the 60s, 70s, and 80s, you would know this.
i would argue that atlanta and detroit went through very similar phases during the same time period. the reason atlanta wasn't hit as bad was twofold, first of all, atlanta was a smaller city, and second, atlanta had a more varied economy and was able to recover whereas detroit was not.
but for someone to argue that atlanta is the next detroit shows a complete lack of knowledge of the city of atlanta other than it's majority black. it's idiocy. anyone familiar with atlanta in any capacity would know that.
Ive said it already. A typical middle class black living in a southern city does not differ wildly from one place to the next. So it does not matter what city is brought up. People are being compared here, not the cities themselves directly.
Dude, you've not interacted with me enough to say I'm being "disingenuous as usual," so just cut that bullcrap out. Instead of feigning offense and being all butthurt over nothing, try acting like a mature adult and give me the benefit of the doubt, especially since I'm somewhat in disagreement with the original premise.
What the hell is "quite Black?" Some of you folks in this thread are revealing your odd preconceptions and views on race. Whether you are Black or not.
Those neighborhoods are predominately black. Theres nothing racist about pointing that out. Quite as in "most assuredly." The OP thinks all the new developments are occuring in white areas of town. He is wrong.
Dude, you've not interacted with me enough to say I'm being disingenuous. Instead of feigning offense and being all butthurt over nothing, try acting like a mature adult and give me the benefit of the doubt, especially since I'm somewhat in disagreement with the original premise.
You need to put your big boy pants on and know the ins and outs of a proper discussion. No one is going to hold your hand and lead you because you cant figure out the difference of trolling a thread and bragging about Atlanta vs an honest discussion where it is rightfully mentioned. You asked I answered. Deal worth it or you dont have to participate here it is just that simple.
You need to put your big boy pants on and know the ins and outs of a proper discussion. No one is going to hold your hand and lead you because you cant figure out the difference of trolling a thread and bragging about Atlanta vs an honest discussion where it is rightfully mentioned. You asked I answered. Deal worth it or you dont have to participate here it is just that simple.
I asked nothing of you and never even addressed you because I already know you have a tendency to be unjustifiably defensive to the point of irrationality--and here we are.
So if someone brings Atlanta up as a basis of comparison here, people complain about how people are constantly coming to this forum trying to tell people how Atlanta is better than Birmingham. If you try to remove Atlanta from the equation and choose another city, someone else will complain that you're trying to portray Atlanta as being too good to compare to Birmingham. Geesh, can't win for losing with you guys either way, I see.
According to the rules here I can't tell you what to do with your suggestion but here is where you expressed confusion and the inability to understand how to conduct yourself in a civil constructive conversation here without people "complaining." So yeah, asked and answered.
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