Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Alabama > Birmingham area
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-14-2008, 11:53 AM
 
28,895 posts, read 54,134,340 times
Reputation: 46680

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnyDayNow View Post
Trying to overlook the fiscal fiasco that was Visionland, and trying to come up with a positive about the dome.....nope, nothing.

More traffic? Great. Hey, maybe that would bring some people to ride the public transportation that we'll have, since most of the buses I've seen at "rush hour" have at most 6 to 7 people. And that was only on one bus, while the rest had 2 or 3. That's a lot of taxpayer money paying for a relatively few riders. So we're already getting a low return on our investment, so let's throw a couple more million at it to see if that doesn't help.

Maybe the reason people aren't thrilled about the dome is something to do with the fast talking, don't-ask-questions, I-can't-believe-you-people-want-details attitude. He acts like it's his money he's talking about, instead of ours. Harry, the "Music Man" analogy was great, very appropriate.

The rest of the information presented as to why this is such a great idea doesn't have anything to do with why Birmingham Needs a dome. And it certainly doesn't explain to me how I as a taxpaying resident am going to benefit from this. I'm not one of those with my hand under the table and making deals that benefit me personally, or quid pro quo deals. I'm not getting personal loans from people in exchange for murky other services. So excuse me if I am not thrilled about how millions of tax dollars are being built on a showcase to one man's ego.

Montgomery is doing a lot to change their convention center and nearby area, but it hasn't made me want to run back down there. A dome wouldn't, either.

You can put whipped cream on a **** but it still won't be a doughnut.

Say what you want about VisionLand. But, as Alabama Adventure, it's now a fiscally solvent attraction drawing people from around the region, particularly people who don't want to drive all the way over to Six Flags. It's not Six Flags, but it's a good area attraction. Southland Entertainment, the company that took it over, posted record results last season, added two new rides, and is currently eyeing the construction of a convention hotel with the construction of an indoor water park. Not exactly an indication that the park is a failure, now is it? Of course, you don't want to be bothered by facts, do you? You would just prefer to sit back, do nothing, and dump on people who are actually doing something to improve the area.

I think if you actually go back and be objective, the common thread in all your comments is basically, "Birmingham can't succeed." That's pretty stupid, both in light of how much economic progress this area has made in the past ten years (Something nobody seems to rebut), and the fact that any municipality has to make these kinds of investments to realize further progress as a place where people want to live and companies want to establish themselves. Twenty years ago, people in Chattanooga were asking, "What on earth do we need an aquarium for?" Now, all you have to do is spend a day or so in that city to realize what a wholesale transformation has taken place there. Birmingham is on the same path as Chattanooga. In fact, when it comes to overhauling the economy, Birmingham is well ahead.

If it were up to you guys, Birmingham would still be the home of rusted out steel mills, 17% unemployment, and zero economic growth. Kind of sad that you're missing out on a really great story, something you guys could actually be proud of.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-14-2008, 02:15 PM
 
768 posts, read 2,100,274 times
Reputation: 436
No, the common thread in all our comments is not, "Birmingham can't succeed." The issue here isn't Birmingham. The issue is the dome.

Langford doesn't seem to be in touch with fiscal responsibility--or did you not watch the financial downward spiral that was Visionland? Not shockingly, Visionland bankruptcy was declared in 2002. That is a fact. Yes, it finally is a viable venture NOW--but that only occurred long after Langford's role was done. He had nothing to do with its being a profitable venture. Let's do the math--a roughly $60 million investment, sold less than 5 years after being built for a mere $5.25 million; $55 million down the toilet. But wait, that's not all. It still owed $7 million in payables. So that would bring it to roughly $62 million down the drain. Wow, that is impressive.

The fact that no one wants to "rebut" your claims about Bham's economy may not have anything to do with it being true or not. The thread is not about Birmingham's economy. The thread is about a dome. You make the statement that Birmingham has made economic progress in the past ten years. If so, it was done without a dome. Why is the dome the only possible way for the positive trend to continue?

From a concerned citizen's perspective, it looks like just another idea that Langford has had and is going to bankrupt someone else yet again to accomplish. If there were some fiscal responsibility or planning in there, maybe--just maybe--we could get past his history of reckless spending. But all there has been is a lot of fast talking and demanding. Spending is great fun, but the bills will eventually come due. Birmingham will still be here at that point. Where will Langford be?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-14-2008, 04:09 PM
 
23,589 posts, read 70,358,767 times
Reputation: 49216
"If it were up to you guys, Birmingham would still be the home of rusted out steel mills, 17% unemployment, and zero economic growth."

Tell me again how it managed to do that WITHOUT a domed stadium and an aquarium?

If the project was a state-of-the-art mega-hospital that would promote one of Birmingham's biggest strong points, then I might be more ammenable to the use of public funds. Stadiums bring in rowdy slam-bam-thankee-ma'am crowds. In contrast, a hospital that led the country in heart research would bring in the BIG bucks and create a need for upscale housing and apartments near the hospital for outpatients and those who want to live near such a facility. There are a lot of aging baby-boomers with money. A well run and financed hospital would serve them and at the same time serve the community.

I don't denigrate Brookwood or St Vincents or the other hospitals, just note that "new and improved" can be an attractant. I walked through one hospital on the west coast of Florida that looked more like an upscale hotel than a hospital, and it was filled.

Nobody is suggesting that smart promotion can't help the city, and improvements in infrastructure aren't needed, but pushing the debt and liabilities of a stadium when the streets are falling apart is foolishness.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-14-2008, 10:52 PM
 
Location: Alabama!
6,048 posts, read 18,415,087 times
Reputation: 4835
Government-owned, government-run Visionland failed. Alabama Adventure, purchased by a private firm at a fire sale price, with extra investments (as you detailed), run as a private business, has succeeded. Big difference.
Chattanooga's aquarium attracts people of all ages 7 days a week, all day long. A domed stadium would only be open for a small number of events a year. Very hard to compare the two.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-16-2008, 12:29 AM
 
Location: Historic Bessemer Alabama
629 posts, read 3,598,083 times
Reputation: 490
Default All Stories Must Go

All Stories Must Go
By: Kyle Whitmire

With 2007 coming to and end, every story and every soundbyte in Leapin’ Larry’s factory warehouse has got to go! It’s political retail at wholesale prices. The inventory is overstocked and we have to make room for the 2008 merchandise. Get the bargains now, before they're gone!

Leapin’ Larry pleads the … Fifth?
On Dec. 11, Birmingham Mayor Larry Langford answered a subpoena from the Securities and Exchange Commission by saying virtually nothing. It was Langford’s second deposition with the investigators who want to know whether he and others on the Jefferson County Commission took bribes in exchange for lucrative bond work.

During Langford’s tenure on the county commission, the county sold more than $1 billion in bonds and engaged in more than $5 billion of interest rate swaps. So far those swaps have cost the county nearly $150 million in additional interest payments, on top of nearly $100 million in fees to investment bankers and consultants.

One of those bankers, Bill Blount of Montgomery, is a long-time Langford friend. From documents filed in federal court last week, it appears the SEC has traced a trail of money from Blount to lobbyist Al LaPierre to Langford.

At the beginning of the interview with the investigators last week, Langford read a brief statement saying that, on the advice of his legal counsel, he would not answer the SEC’s questions. In the statement he cited his rights under the constitution, but Langford would not say specifically which privilege he was invoking. The SEC investigators balked at Langford taking the Fifth without actually saying he was taking the Fifth.

The SEC investigators and Langford’s lawyers fought through much of the interview over whether Langford was in fact pleading the Fifth. The investigators insisted that Langford had to specify which privilege he was invoking. Langford’s lawyers said that invoking the Fifth Amendment would be politically damaging.

“There is nothing the press or his political enemies would like more than to say Larry Langford took the Fifth, all right?” Langford’s lawyer Michael Rasmussen said. “Nothing more than that.”

Later in the interview, Rasmussen even read a paragraph from an SEC document that said Langford could plead the Fifth Amendment if he so chose. Then Rasmussen asked his client: “Now, Mr. Langford, is the right identified in paragraph 5 the right you relied upon in refusing to testify?” Langford then said it was.

But that was not enough to satisfy the SEC investigators, and the interview ended. The following day, an SEC interview with Blount ended with a nearly identical stalemate.

The SEC has asked a federal court to order the two men to testify or invoke a specific privilege.


Leapin’ Larry cares for his own
Don’t think for a moment that Langford’s troubles with the SEC will effect his behavior, or his choices for City Hall staff. Last week, Langford hired former Jefferson County Finance Director Steve Sayler to serve as finance director for the City of Birmingham.

At Jefferson County, Sayler oversaw the bond swap debacle that has drawn attention from the SEC, the Justice Department and the national media. Earlier this year, Sayler was also subpoenaed to testify for the SEC. In response to the investigation, he has retained a criminal defense lawyer to assist him.

Regardless, it is apparent why Langford has brought Sayler to the city. If the city is to build a domed stadium, as approved by the city council this month, Birmingham or a related entity will have to sell at least $500 million of bonds.


The future is now
Visitors to City Hall this week got to see the future of Birmingham law enforcement, and it’s a tricycle. Walking is so 20th century.

Mayor Langford wants the city to buy electric three-wheeled scooters for the Birmingham Police Department. The scooters have a top speed of 30 miles per hour, in addition to flashing lights, bells and whistles. The scooters would allow police to better patrol major public events, such as City Stages, but the main reason it seems for the scooters is that Hoover has them already. The scooters cost approximately $10,000 each.

Also, the mayor has proposed that the city approve at least 40 high-tech surveillance cameras, positioned throughout the city to observe crime. The cameras are capable of zooming in and focusing over long distances. (Actually, it’s not quite clear how many cameras Langford really wants. In one meeting he said 10, in another 120, and on the council agenda there were 40.)

“We want to say that if you are around the city center, you are now being taped,” Langford told several city councilors after a committee meeting Monday. He also told them that the company had given him a demonstration in which they looked through windows into buildings.

The cameras would be installed and operated by a private company, Langford said.

On Tuesday, the city council delayed both items until January. Several councilors said they wanted more information about the projects, which had apparently not been let for bids.


Leapin’ Larry’s Leaks
During a committee meeting Monday, Mayor Langford told city councilors that someone in the mayor’s office had been talking to the media about renovations in the building, and he promised to fire the leaks once he’d identified them.

In recent weeks, the mayor’s office and city council chambers have undergone renovations, with even more extensive changes in store soon. Office chairs in the council chambers have been replaced, HDTVs installed, and light fixtures added. Langford said he wants the Birmingham Museum of Art to put some of its artwork on display on the City Hall third floor.

The mayor said he had paid for the improvements with unexpended money the council had budgeted for the improvements two years ago. The mayor’s office must have council approval for any expenditures greater than $10,000.


In the Dog House
And finally, the mayor insists still that the best location for a domed stadium would not be downtown at the BJCC, but rather near the Birmingham Race Course, or as it is more colloquially known, Milton McGregor’s dog track. Some civic leaders, including Alabama Power CEO Charles McCrary, have argued that the BJCC is still the most logical site, but Langford continues with his plan undeterred. The mayor insists that he is thinking “outside the box.” (Never mind that anyone who’s still saying “outside the box” is not thinking “outside the box.”)


Rewriting History

While the mayor is planning new city facilities, he intends to destroy the old ones, but not before soiling their historic reputations. Langford wants to demolish Boutwell Auditorium to make room for an expansion at the Birmingham Museum of Art.

While many residents oppose the mayor’s plan, Langford insists those opponents are perpetuating a legacy of racism in Birmingham. Boutwell Auditorium, he claims, was named after a racist mayor who gave Bull Connor free reign at City Hall, and the auditorium itself is just a place where Nat King Cole got pelted by a bunch of Klansmen.

While the second part is true, Mayor Boutwell was no friend of Connor's, having run against him twice for political office and defeating him for the Birmingham mayor’s office.

But the historical revision doesn’t end there. Langford also claims that Legion Field, which he also intends to demolish, was named after a demon in the Bible. In fact, it was given that name to honor the American Legion.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-16-2008, 07:46 AM
 
23,589 posts, read 70,358,767 times
Reputation: 49216
Eidtorials work so much better when the writer knows the difference between "effect" and "affect." Knowledge of the language lends credibility.

Not defending Langford, but there are now legitimate reasons NOT to speak to quasi-governmental investigators, as Martha Stewart learned. In fact, invoking the fifth against a governmental arm (such as the EPA) that has powers specifically excluded by the Constitution is buying into the illegal concept of their having power in the first place. What has happened over the past few years in particular, and at times throughout U.S. history, is that groups have attained power, and the public accepted that power, without the Supreme Court always stepping up to the bat and saying "No, you can't do that." Sometimes the infraction has had positive effects for the public, but in each case, it has eroded the strength of the Constitution and created a greater cummulative harm.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-29-2008, 09:24 AM
 
7 posts, read 25,140 times
Reputation: 13
oops... I was wrong. It looks like Birmingham already has a Dome - a few of them actually: Birmingham’s Top 5 Domes
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-29-2008, 11:19 AM
 
Location: Historic Bessemer Alabama
629 posts, read 3,598,083 times
Reputation: 490
Quote:
Originally Posted by leadingzero View Post
oops... I was wrong. It looks like Birmingham already has a Dome - a few of them actually: Birmingham’s Top 5 Domes

Good, then we don't need any more! I'm sure those wee not paid for with taxpayers money and neither should Langfords.........
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-23-2009, 09:29 AM
 
12,735 posts, read 21,767,122 times
Reputation: 3774
Default Dome Stadium is finally going to be built?!

Quote:
Dome will prove Birmingham, Alabama can compete for big events, officials say


Tuesday, July 21, 2009 ROY L. WILLIAMS
News staff writer

Birmingham convention officials hope today's groundbreaking ceremony symbolizing the start of the dome project will remove questions about the city's ability to host big events, allowing them to bring in more business.
The Birmingham-Jefferson Convention Complex will break ground at 5 p.m. at the site at 23rd Street North and Richard Arrington Jr. Boulevard. BJCC Board Chairman Clyde Echols said the expansion, sought for more than a decade, will enable the complex to attract conventions, trade shows and sporting events that now skip Birmingham for cities with bigger, more modern facilities.
"This is a monumental day for our region," Echols said. "It is wonderful to see all of the years of hard work come to fruition."
Dome will prove Birmingham, Alabama can compete for big events, officials say - al.com
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-23-2009, 09:48 AM
 
28,895 posts, read 54,134,340 times
Reputation: 46680
It's looking that way.

Personally, I think it's a good idea. Everybody's screaming about the expense, but nobody realizes that it would amortize nicely over a 30 year period. In the meantime, it makes Birmingham a candidate for a lot more events, sporting and otherwise, even if it never attracts a professional franchise.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Settings
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2020 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Alabama > Birmingham area
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:29 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top