UPDATED: New and Upcoming Projects. (Birmingham: rich, campus, ticket)

[Tourian]

Originally Posted by Dorsai56

Torian, with regard to a kickoff game, in general a neutral site game like that is a big deal TV game which is played in a huge venue, typically an NFL stadium. P5 teams make so much money on home games that the only way a game like that makes sense for them is if it is an ESPN game paying big money, played in a huge stadium where the teams can split the gate. You also need teams who have a large number of traveling fans. We're talking Jerryworld in Dallas, or in Atlanta, something like that.

It is not impossible for something like that to happen in Birmingham, but I don't see how the pieces fit and the numbers work to make it happen. If it is for a smaller league like C-USA, there isn't enough money in it to offset losing the gate, concessions, and parking a team gets for a home game.

Yeah. 5 years ago that was the only answer. Going forward they will become less and less exclusive. The playoff committee and the NCAA have been pushing for consolidation of the divisions and better scheduling which means less cupcakes. So yeah when Alabama went to Dallas to spank Michigan four years ago that was a big deal and will still be a big deal but they want more and more matchups like this and all of them won't involve two big name helmets like that. So a kickoff game that pits Arkansas vs Wisconsin or Vandy vs Nebraska won't necessarily get the big primetime spot broadcast from Jerryworld but might come to a place like Birmingham. There will be more kickoff games in the future and more regular season P5 crossdivisional match ups and if we aren't in a position to host one we won't get one.

[280Tony]

We. *****. About. Lack. Of. Convention. Space. Then. Take. Convention. Projects. Off. Of. The. Table.

The dome was about so much more than sports. That would've been its secondary function. Now that precious downtown space goes to a brand new high school stadium for a CUSA team. No knock against UAB, but my god, this is garden variety Birmingham shortsightedness.

[preguntas]

Originally Posted by 280Tony

We. *****. About. Lack. Of. Convention. Space. Then. Take. Convention. Projects. Off. Of. The. Table.

The dome was about so much more than sports. That would've been its secondary function. Now that precious downtown space goes to a brand new high school stadium for a CUSA team. No knock against UAB, but my god, this is garden variety Birmingham shortsightedness.

Yes, you are absolutely correct. We squander in the short term what could have been our legacy in the long term.

[Dorsai56]

That is mostly a lack of trustworthy and intelligent leadership in Birmingham City Hall, combined with a lack of finances. A fifty thousand seat domed stadium will run somewhere in the neighborhood of two hundred million dollars. If you want it larger the price increases accordingly. The city does not have that kind of money to spend, and even if it did you then have to hold the debate as to whether that is the smartest place the city could spend $200m versus splitting it into several other projects.

Do you trust the William Bell / Jonathan Austin leadership group with that kind of money? Larry Langford? Bernard Kincaid? Richard Arrington?

There is no regional leadership that encompasses the various area municipalities/fiefdoms. Same for the counties in the B'ham area. People who do not live in Birmingham don't trust the city to get it done, and don't want to get involved in trying to make it happen.

The only reasons that there is a stadium push at all is the UAB Football shutdown and accompanying outrage combined with a group of big business types who think that having a college team in town (with the sort of physical plant it requires) is good for the city. Most of those guys are far more Birmingham boosters than they are UAB fans, they just recognize what an engine UAB is for the city economy.

I suspect that when the project designs are released you will find that the plan is for a very nice stadium which is appropriate to the need, similar to the way that Regions Park is. No, it won't be an SEC scale venue - because there simply is no need for one. BJCC intends to refurbish the existing facilitiy and to add another convention hall. I hope the BJCC breaks free of the lawsuit and is able to put the plans on the table soon.

[Tourian]

Originally Posted by Dorsai56

Do you trust the William Bell / Jonathan Austin leadership group with that kind of money? Larry Langford? Bernard Kincaid? Richard Arrington?

I guess if you're safely throwing stones from Irondale there's no real answer to that question except that Langford, Kincaid and Arrington are no longer in the picture - so why even mention them.


The current administration along with the business community did at least successfully bring us Regions Field, The Crossplex, Railroad Park and Uptown. 200M for a "dome" would be the next logical step that I don't think is outside their ability or trust.

[Dorsai56]

I'm not throwing stones, I am expressing well earned cynicism. The level of petty shenanigans, dysfunction and bureaucratic infighting at the top of the city government does not inspire confidence. I have watched William Bell's career arc for years and I have little confidence in his leadership. I hope that the self interest of City Hall and various private interests align sufficiently to continue the positive momentum. I'm not some suburbanite who is afraid to go downtown. I spend time and money there on a regular basis. I have taken the time and effort to push back on mindless attacks in the comments section of Al.com countless times. I just look at the history of the various attempts to push the dome and see no particular reason for optimism that it will happen this time, that conditions and leadership have changed enough to make it happen.

I am extremely happy about Birmingham's current renaissance. My wife used to work where right field of Region's Park now is, and is now a block from Railroad Park. I am well aware of the positive changes in that area of town, and I am very happy for it. If they can swing the financing for a dome, more power to them. I don't think it's even under discussion, however.

Sometimes the best is the enemy of the good enough, and everything I hear about the BJCC expansion plan sounds like a solid improvement. I'd rather see that happen than another three or four years wrestling with a dome/multipurpose facility that winds up not being built. Again.

[Tourian]

I think it is still a specious and grandstanding to only talk about the mayor and the council. Especially when you dig up a name like Langford considering his current home address. But it is mainly his ideas being implemented by Bell so what are you really saying? What are you really talking about? They (Bell and Austin) are important in this , but it doesn't just depend on them. A guy like Gene Hallman is really the or one of the main lynchpins that swings the biggest bat for this project. If he can gain the support of business leaders and all the who's and have's that's when dirt will start getting moved. I have no lack of confidence that Bell and Austin could find time to stop arguing to sign off on something that important.

[280Tony]

The dome has always been possible. If the city needed to several years to plan, earmark a tax, bind private money, secure bonds and underwriting, commission studies, etc, then everyone would've been willing to work patiently and cooperatively in order to manifest what has becoming the glaring economic need for Birmingham. The city loses / has lost ridiculous amounts of money due to lack of convention space. The UAB stadium will return absolutely nothing. Nothing.

[Dorsai56]

Tourian, all I did was list the Mayors in order back to Arrington, which includes Arrington. I left out the pro-tems. You yourself listed several things that got started on Langford's watch, many of the good things that have been built were his ideas. How could I not mention him? There was no agenda involved in that. I did not place any more weight on one name than another, other than making a comment about Bell because he is guy currently in charge. If anything, although Bell wasn't the idea guy he does get some credit for getting the projects constructed and in use. As to Gene Hallman, he has plenty of weight to get things done - if they are good for Gene Hallman.

I know I sound like a broken record, but I really don't know of Hallman doing anything for the good of Birmingham per se. If the city made out because of the golf tournament or races at Barber's due to his involvement (and certainly it has) it wasn't done out of altruism. Where does he get his piece of the pie with regard to a dome?

Hallman pulls some weight, certainly. On the other hand, if you look at who is involved with the UAB Athletic Foundation which is raising money for the new football building on campus as well as for the Uptown Stadium, there is no shortage of heavy hitters there either. This is an old link, there are about twenty-five more now, with the same sort of level of influence. Note that there are five members of the UA BoT on that list, and in Alabama those are influential individuals indeed.

https://www.uab.edu/news/service/ite...ics-foundation

[Dorsai56]

I meant "...which includes Langford."