best neighborhoods in birmingham that are... (Hoover, Homewood: for sale, cheap apartments, to rent)

[BamaTex]

Originally Posted by cpg35223

Southside stretches from Green Springs Avenue over to the end of Crestwood. All the aforementioned areas are neighborhoods within Southside.

That being said, we lived in Avondale for 16 years, and had excellent city services. The garbage was picked up on time. The recycling was picked up on time. The library was good. The police patrolled quite regularly. The streets were maintained. We never had the first hint of trouble. If it weren't for the terrible public schools, we would have stayed down there. And, like I said before, there were a lot of interns and residents in our neighborhood.

What's more, for the price of what you're paying to rent a house in Homewood, you could own one outright in Avondale/Crestwood/and parts of Forest Park. The houses turn sell quickly, and the quality of life is very high, especially if you prefer some diversity, not the usual homogenized suburban crowd. To be honest, Mountain Brook is okay, but it is really a boring bunch of people, and the day our youngest graduates, we're moving right back down to our old stomping grounds. Give me the quirky, fun-loving life of Southside to Homewood and Mountain Brook any day of the week.

Not sure I'd agree with your boundaries of Southside. From wikipedia:

"The Southside encompasses the southern half of Birmingham's downtown area from the Railroad Reservation to the crest of Red Mountain and from Interstate 65 on the west to Elton B. Stephens Expressway (US 31, or "Red Mountain Expressway") on the east. It is considered to be the Midtown area of the city due its relationship to Downtown."

Southside, Birmingham, Alabama - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[cpg35223]

Originally Posted by BamaTex

Not sure I'd agree with your boundaries of Southside. From wikipedia:

"The Southside encompasses the southern half of Birmingham's downtown area from the Railroad Reservation to the crest of Red Mountain and from Interstate 65 on the west to Elton B. Stephens Expressway (US 31, or "Red Mountain Expressway") on the east. It is considered to be the Midtown area of the city due its relationship to Downtown."

Southside, Birmingham, Alabama - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ask anybody who lives in that part of town. If they're describing where they live they'll say, "Oh, I live in the Highland Avenue part of Southside" or "I live in the Forest Park section of Southside."

[BamaTex]

Originally Posted by cpg35223

Ask anybody who lives in that part of town. If they're describing where they live they'll say, "Oh, I live in the Highland Avenue part of Southside" or "I live in the Forest Park section of Southside."

Forest Park and Highland Ave I can definitely see. But Crestwood is probably a stretch. Especially the part near Eastwood Mall.

[MrBT]

Originally Posted by cpg35223

Southside stretches from Green Springs Avenue over to the end of Crestwood. All the aforementioned areas are neighborhoods within Southside.

That being said, we lived in Avondale for 16 years, and had excellent city services. The garbage was picked up on time. The recycling was picked up on time. The library was good. The police patrolled quite regularly. The streets were maintained. We never had the first hint of trouble. If it weren't for the terrible public schools, we would have stayed down there. And, like I said before, there were a lot of interns and residents in our neighborhood.

What's more, for the price of what you're paying to rent a house in Homewood, you could own one outright in Avondale/Crestwood/and parts of Forest Park. The houses turn sell quickly, and the quality of life is very high, especially if you prefer some diversity, not the usual homogenized suburban crowd. To be honest, Mountain Brook is okay, but it is really a boring bunch of people, and the day our youngest graduates, we're moving right back down to our old stomping grounds. Give me the quirky, fun-loving life of Southside to Homewood and Mountain Brook any day of the week.

Hogwash. Southside would never be a term used to describe Crestwood or Avondale or Crestline Park. Crestwood, Avondale and Crestline Park are east of Bham.

City services in those neighborhoods dont even come close to what a city like Homewood offers. Homewood has twice weekly garbage pickup, at your door! You dont take cans to the street, the garbage people come to your back door and empty your cans. Homewood has weekly street trash pickup. Bagged grass clippings, boxes and junk of any kind is picked up weekly. You can even throw a refrigerator on the street and they will pick it up. Homewood has fall leaf pickup. Rake or blow your leaves to the curb and the city comes by with a leaf truck and sucks them all up. Homewood has a private gym and several city pools that are only available to Homewood residents. Buy a yearly rec pass for 25 bucks and you have use of the weight room, cardio equipment, walking track, gym and all the pools. Homewood has a comprehensive Park and Rec program featuring events and festivals that are second to none for a suburban city. Shopping, churches, parks are all within a short distance, and in many cases walking distance, from almost anywhere in Homewood.

These are only some of the quality of life issues that would be important to a potential renter like a medical student. If you are a potential home owner things like low property taxes, top quality schools, fabulous home value appreciation and an unparalleled geographic location within the greater Bham area make Homewood what it is.

Crestwood, Avondale, Crestline Park and any other area within the city limits of Bham dont hold a candle to what places like Homewood and other over the mountain communities offer relocating residents. Its not even close.

[cpg35223]

Originally Posted by MrBT

Hogwash. Southside would never be a term used to describe Crestwood or Avondale or Crestline Park. Crestwood, Avondale and Crestline Park are east of Bham.

City services in those neighborhoods dont even come close to what a city like Homewood offers. Homewood has twice weekly garbage pickup, at your door! You dont take cans to the street, the garbage people come to your back door and empty your cans. Homewood has weekly street trash pickup. Bagged grass clippings, boxes and junk of any kind is picked up weekly. You can even throw a refrigerator on the street and they will pick it up. Homewood has fall leaf pickup. Rake or blow your leaves to the curb and the city comes by with a leaf truck and sucks them all up. Homewood has a private gym and several city pools that are only available to Homewood residents. Buy a yearly rec pass for 25 bucks and you have use of the weight room, cardio equipment, walking track, gym and all the pools. Homewood has a comprehensive Park and Rec program featuring events and festivals that are second to none for a suburban city. Shopping, churches, parks are all within a short distance, and in many cases walking distance, from almost anywhere in Homewood.

These are only some of the quality of life issues that would be important to a potential renter like a medical student. If you are a potential home owner things like low property taxes, top quality schools, fabulous home value appreciation and an unparalleled geographic location within the greater Bham area make Homewood what it is.

Crestwood, Avondale, Crestline Park and any other area within the city limits of Bham dont hold a candle to what places like Homewood and other over the mountain communities offer relocating residents. Its not even close.

Hogwash? Did I just wander into an Andy Griffith movie or something?

Excuse me. I lived in that part of town for 16 years. I think I should know how we all refer to ourselves.

And, given your rapturous description of Homewood, I think you work for the Chamber of Commerce there. However, I'm sorry. But if you really enjoy homogenous living that's fine. But Forest Park/Highland Avenue/Avondale smokes anything in Homewood. Period. The homes. The amenities. The parks. The variety of things to do. The lifestyle. Having lived over the mountain and on Southside there's no comparison. But, hey, if you really want whitebread suburban living for no other reason than having your trash picked up twice a week as opposed to once a week, then knock yourself out.

As far as the rest of your criteria:

Home appreciation. Within a 16 year period, my home in Avondale Forest Park appreciated 350%, thanks.

Home affordability. A factor you conveniently omit, which is odd because interns and residents don't have an endless supply of money. We were shocked at how high the prices were in Homewood. Any home with a decent amount of floor space was being sold at extortionate prices. We found that homes in Mountain Brook were, apples to apples, much more affordable. And, if you get down to nut cutting time, Mountain Brook schools are so much better than Homewood schools that it's not even funny. Heck, Homewood schools don't compare with Vestavia or Hoover either. What's more, getting back to the OP's stated needs, they are working within a budget. They can buy still buy a house outright in that part of town, own it for three years, and make money off the sale, whereas renting a home in Homewood would be akin to pouring money down a gigantic hole and walking away.

Low property taxes. They're lower in Birmingham than Homewood, thanks. Of course, if they rent a home, this really isn't a consideration, is it?

Unparalleled geographic location. Forest Park, Crestwood, and Homewood are equidistant from UAB hospital. However, it's a heck of a lot easier to drive to the hospital from Forest Park than it is from Homewood.

Amenities. Plenty of shops, restaurants, etc. etc., within a five minute drive of anywhere you live.

Schools. Homewood is absolutely better. But the average intern/resident doesn't have school age kids. In fact, dozen or so interns who lived within two blocks of us were years from starting families. Why pay for schools if you aren't needing them?

Of course, the average resident or intern won't have time to do many of those things, so it might be moot point. All our friends were there for one thing: Finish their programs and then move on to wherever.

[gustygulas]

Good arguments on both sides. If I had my choice, I would live in Forest Park. The homes are gorgeous. Also there are some parts of Avondale in my opinion that I would not dare live. Stick to South Avondale if you can.

Always remember if you are looking at houses to rent or buy and you question safety at all...drive in the late evening to see what kind of activity is around.

[BamaTex]

Originally Posted by cpg35223

Hogwash? Did I just wander into an Andy Griffith movie or something?

Excuse me. I lived in that part of town for 16 years. I think I should know how we all refer to ourselves.

And, given your rapturous description of Homewood, I think you work for the Chamber of Commerce there. However, I'm sorry. But if you really enjoy homogenous living that's fine. But Forest Park/Highland Avenue/Avondale smokes anything in Homewood. Period. The homes. The amenities. The parks. The variety of things to do. The lifestyle. Having lived over the mountain and on Southside there's no comparison. But, hey, if you really want whitebread suburban living for no other reason than having your trash picked up twice a week as opposed to once a week, then knock yourself out.

As far as the rest of your criteria:

Home appreciation. Within a 16 year period, my home in Avondale Forest Park appreciated 350%, thanks.

Home affordability. A factor you conveniently omit, which is odd because interns and residents don't have an endless supply of money. We were shocked at how high the prices were in Homewood. Any home with a decent amount of floor space was being sold at extortionate prices. We found that homes in Mountain Brook were, apples to apples, much more affordable. And, if you get down to nut cutting time, Mountain Brook schools are so much better than Homewood schools that it's not even funny. Heck, Homewood schools don't compare with Vestavia or Hoover either. What's more, getting back to the OP's stated needs, they are working within a budget. They can buy still buy a house outright in that part of town, own it for three years, and make money off the sale, whereas renting a home in Homewood would be akin to pouring money down a gigantic hole and walking away.

Low property taxes. They're lower in Birmingham than Homewood, thanks. Of course, if they rent a home, this really isn't a consideration, is it?

Unparalleled geographic location. Forest Park, Crestwood, and Homewood are equidistant from UAB hospital. However, it's a heck of a lot easier to drive to the hospital from Forest Park than it is from Homewood.

Amenities. Plenty of shops, restaurants, etc. etc., within a five minute drive of anywhere you live.

Schools. Homewood is absolutely better. But the average intern/resident doesn't have school age kids. In fact, dozen or so interns who lived within two blocks of us were years from starting families. Why pay for schools if you aren't needing them?

Of course, the average resident or intern won't have time to do many of those things, so it might be moot point. All our friends were there for one thing: Finish their programs and then move on to wherever.

I'd have to disagree with you a little on the schools. I agree that Mountain Brook and Vestavia are #1 and #2. But, I'd say it's a toss up though between Homewood and Hoover. And it's not like MB and Vestavia are light years ahead of Homewood.

[MrBT]

Originally Posted by cpg35223

Hogwash? Did I just wander into an Andy Griffith movie or something?

No but its a better term than one that would more aptly describe your original characterization about Crestwood, Avondale and Crestline Park being considered "Southside". Thats laughable no matter how you try and justify it.

Originally Posted by cpg35223

But if you really enjoy homogenous living that's fine.

This one comment proves you have no clue of which you speak. Homewood is as close to real life America as any suburban city in Alabama. Over 30% non-white residents, over 30% non-white students and over 40% non-owner occupied housing, ie: apartments. There is absolutely nothing homogeneous about that in the least.

Originally Posted by cpg35223

But Forest Park/Highland Avenue/Avondale smokes anything in Homewood.

The only thing smoking here is whatever you're puffing on. Its beyond comprehension that anything in the City of Birmingham, based any set of criteria from top to bottom, has more to offer than the prosperous OTM municipalities (Mountain Brook, Vestavia, Homewood & Hoover)

Originally Posted by cpg35223

Heck, Homewood schools don't compare with Vestavia or Hoover either.

Another example of ignorance but in this case you are right, sort of. Homewood Schools dont compare to Hoovers, they blow them away by any measure. If you want to measure it with the "homogeneous factor" then just look at Homewoods test scores for the white population only. Better than Mountain Brook, better than Vestavia and MUCH better than Hoovers. Add in all students and Homewood ranks 3rd in the state, ahead of Hoover. Thats some teaching going on there. Homewood schools have better statistics by any measure when compared to Hoover. Money, facilities, student-teacher ratio, etc. The list is long and comprehensive.

Anyway, this is a waste of time. Arguing with ignorance is futile. If the original poster is a med student then I advise him to speak with current med students and current med student grads then make his own decision. There is nothing wrong with living in any of the places that have been discussed.

[cpg35223]

One at a time.

Schools? You're wrong. Homewood lags behind, ignoring your bizarre "white population" exception. Compare yourself:

Hoover High School Test Scores - Hoover, Alabama - AL
Homewood High School Test Scores - Homewood, Alabama - AL
Vestavia Hills High School Test Scores - Birmingham, Alabama - AL
Mountain Brook High School Test Scores - Mountain Brook, Alabama - AL

Oh, and according to data on this web site, Homewood is 80% white, not 70%, even with all the rabbit warren apartments you describe. Even then, the non-white population is pretty much segregated into Valley Avenue/Green Springs apartments (From which, by the way, more than one medical student has been kidnapped, raped, or not heard from again). Unless it's a nanny pushing a stroller, I just don't see many black folks enjoying a stroll through Hollywood or Edgewood.

The only thing smoking here is whatever you're puffing on. Its beyond comprehension that anything in the City of Birmingham, based any set of criteria from top to bottom, has more to offer than the prosperous OTM municipalities (Mountain Brook, Vestavia, Homewood & Hoover)

Have you actually been to Forest Park? Or do you pretty much stay in your cozy little suburb, worrying about getting mugged if you actually cross Red Mountain? It's the most gracious neighborhood in the city. Nothing compares with either Forest Park or Redmont in terms of livability.

And, you're right. Arguing with ignorance is futile. Except you're the ignorant one. Not I. I'm telling you where the interns and residents live. They lived by the dozens in my neighborhood because it offered the right balance of convenience, affordability, safety, and pleasant living environment. Tout Homewood all you like. But please confine your remarks to a part of town you actually know.

[MrBT]

Originally Posted by cpg35223

Schools? You're wrong. Homewood lags behind.....

Complete and utter nonsense and I have the facts to back it up. Many educators and education administrators have branded greatschools.com as inaccurate and outdated. Lets go to the real source, the state accountability reports. These are the complete authoritative reports on school performance and almost every indicator shows Homewood ahead of Hoover. Considering Homewood has a much higher level of poverty students, as indicated and quoted in the report, every education administrator when asked would consider Homewoods performance vastly superior to Hoovers.

Here are both reports available online, see for yourself:

Homewood: ftp://ftp.alsde.edu/documents/Report...06/157/157.pdf

Hoover: ftp://ftp.alsde.edu/documents/Report...06/158/158.pdf

Here are a few of the statistics for your own review, the data is free of opinion and hearsay. Now tell me again how Homewood lags behind?

Students are eligible for free or reduced meal prices. "It is an indicator of poverty"

Homewood 25%
Hoover 15%

Teachers with Masters or Doctorate:

Homewood 68%
Hoover 65%

Safety or Security Incidents:

Homewood 4 (3 drug, 1 weapon)
Hoover 55 (33 drug, 22 weapon)

Adequate Yearly Progress Status, Grad Span Summary:

Homewood High School: Passed
Hoover High Schools : Failed

Student Academic Performance, Reading Level 4, Percent Exceeding Standard:

Grade 3
Homewood: 72.31%
Hoover : 63.95%

Grade 4
Homewood: 83.81%
Hoover : 71.25%

Grade 5
Homewood: 75.74%
Hoover : 73.80%

Grade 6
Homewood: 75.32%
Hoover : 68.13%

Grade 7
Homewood: 64.03%
Hoover : 66.96%

Grade 8
Homewood: 59.45%
Hoover : 60.22%

Student Academic Performance, Mathematics Level 4, Percent Exceeding Standard:

Grade 3
Homewood: 75.62%
Hoover : 62.59%

Grade 4
Homewood: 79.52%
Hoover : 63.65%

Grade 5
Homewood: 74.75%
Hoover : 59.22%

Grade 6
Homewood: 60.08%
Hoover : 60.76%

Grade 7
Homewood: 56.45%
Hoover : 54.82%

Grade 8
Homewood: 49.41%
Hoover : 48.04%

Graduation Exam Reading, Percent Passed:

Homewood: 89.2%
Hoover : 83.0%

Graduation Exam Reading, Percent Passed Advanced:

Homewood: 32.4%
Hoover : 32.7%

Graduation Exam Mathematics, Percent Passed:

Homewood: 92.77%
Hoover : 92.77%

Graduation Exam Mathematics, Percent Passed Advanced:

Homewood: 48.59%
Hoover : 39.15%

ACT Test Average:

Homewood: 22.30
Hoover : 22.80

Drop Out Rate:

Homewood: 4.31%
Hoover : 5.33%

Originally Posted by cpg35223

ignoring your bizarre "white population" exception. Compare yourself:

Why is my reference to "white population" bizarre when you veiled the same reference in a weak attempt at being politically correct by using the word "homogeneous"? Lets not hide what your meaning was and still is. Furthermore, the State Board of Education breaks down test scores by race so there is nothing bizarre about using race as a reference when mentioning test scores.

Im not going to breakdown the white test scores like I did above for all students but in comparison to Homewood, Hoover isnt even close especially the scores for advanced courses. Homewood beats Hoover in this category by up to 15% points in some cases. I stand by my previous comments about Homewoods test scores for the white population being equal or better than the systems of Vestavia and Mountain Brook which this report validates.

Originally Posted by cpg35223

Nothing compares with either Forest Park or Redmont in terms of livability.

Redmont? LOLOLOL. How in the world does Redmont come into this conversation? You are talking about one of the most elite and expensive neighborhoods in the state of Alabama who's citizens are made up of a "Who's Who" list of business executives, lawyers, doctors, architects, etc who send their kids to the Advent. By your standards Redmont is also part of Southside. Ask a few Redmont residents if they live in Southside. Im sure the answer would be a resounding NO. HAHA! Redmont is the perfect definition of the term you like to use, homogeneous.

Originally Posted by cpg35223

Except you're the ignorant one. Not I. I'm telling you where the interns and residents live. They lived by the dozens in my neighborhood. Tout Homewood all you like. But please confine your remarks to a part of town you actually know.

Read the accountability reports and then tell me who's ignorant.

My remarks are based soley and completely on the parts of town I know which include the aforementioned neighborhoods. Among other places, I own a couple pieces of rental property in Crestwood along with a few in Homewood. All my tenants in Homewood are med students. One of my two tenants in Crestwood is a med student. I currently have a vacancy in Crestwood and it may rent to a med student considering the UAB matches occur this Friday. My Homewood properties have always had med students. Several of my friends with rental property in Homewood have a high percentage of med student tenants.

I stand by my original comments and since there is no source that disseminates the data for where med students live, the argument is moot. Your opinion is no better than mine except I have at least a source to guage, rental properties.

Crestwood is good, Forest Park may be a little too pricey but the best choice is Homewood for residents. Probably more residents and interns in Homewood than anywhere else. Crestwood would come in 2nd but you have to be careful just what areas of Crestwood you look in. One block may be great...3 blocks over you are in Woodlawn.