Northern Beltline (I-422) (Birmingham, Madison: tax, money, county)

[cooldiver]

Originally Posted by jdawson1237

Maybe someone can weigh in on this.. Why do we need a loop up north? Is it just proactive or will it serve a solid purpose currently?

It is being built for the solid purpose of enriching large landowners in North Jeffco. I'm not a John Archibald fan, but the article below describes it perfectly.

http://http://www.al.com/opinion/ind...e_norther.html

Originally Posted by Mississippi Alabama Line

I am in the construction field. The reason these things take so long now is the social and environmental impacts. Both of those sectors are totally out of control. It is simply idiotic what you have to do nowadays.

That doesn't account for nearly all of the 37 years. The 37 years is almost entirely due to the staggering cost that will take many years of federal funding. The betterbeltline web page shows the annual funding.

Birmingham Northern Beltline - Better Beltline

It's almost tragic. There are so many needed projects that could really better the Birmingham metro area, but instead this project will suck up a lot of the available funding for many years to come. 37 to be precise.
The state can't even kill it, because our money-addicted Washington politicians got it written up as a high-priority Appalachian corridor (X-1).

Originally Posted by Mississippi Alabama Line

That's really all that's needed. I get that the Beltline brings money into the state, though.

It doesn't even bring new money into the state.

Some info and good discussion here:

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=2731.325

[cooldiver]

Sorry - Mucked up the link to John Archibald's story in the prior post and too late to edit. This should work.

Who gets rich from the Northern Beltline? Not you | AL.com

But it's one of the biggest boondoggles in the country.

The 7th biggest boondoggle in the U.S. is Alabama's | AL.com

[preguntas]

Instead of introducing someone else's agenda to this subject you should make sure that yours is accurate.
There is no competition for funding between the beltway and other state and national projects. It is a dedicated stream. As to diverting funds from much needed road work in metro BHM you must not get out much, there is an incredible amount of road work underway and on the books to start at the end of the year.


It is hard to understand how anyone could ever drive the south beltway and denigrate or wonder what the sinister purpose of building on the north side might be. I don't live on the north side, but still I frequently could use the savings of time and distance it will offer.


It will assuredly create a flow of money in so many ways that only those who choose can deny. (I know it is popular to hate capitalism now, but sorry, it works)


This discussion is so old and tired, not to mention really irrelevant at this point in time.

[cooldiver]

Originally Posted by preguntas

Instead of introducing someone else's agenda to this subject you should make sure that yours is accurate.

I am not sure what you mean that I have an agenda. I am not opposed to projects in Birmingham - I recognize that the Birmingham metro area is the economic center for this state and needs good highways. I do think this particular project lacks merit, and I did present references and supporting links.

If by someone else's agenda you mean al.com, that is puzzling as they generally quite supportive of the Birmingham metro area. Other than this case where they document how the route will benefit the large landholders of Jefferson County.

Originally Posted by preguntas

There is no competition for funding between the beltway and other state and national projects. It is a dedicated stream. As to diverting funds from much needed road work in metro BHM you must not get out much, there is an incredible amount of road work underway and on the books to start at the end of the year.

NO! It is not a dedicated stream after the first phase (which is now complete), according to the ALDOT betterbeltline.org website. These are the folks actually building the road.

"Where will the money come from?
Because Congress made the Appalachian Development (APD) Highway System a priority, any projects on the BNB that are authorized by September 30, 2050 are eligible for 100% Federal funding, with no requirement for matching funds from the State. The first phase of the Beltline was constructed using the remaining designated APD funds. Remaining APD projects will be funded from ALDOT's overall funding. Specific project funding is determined based upon available funding and needs assessment, among other considerations."

There is a lot of road work underway in the metro, but the beltline will be competing for funds for future projects until 2054. (Or longer if you should be pessimistic about that completion date.)

Originally Posted by preguntas

It is hard to understand how anyone could ever drive the south beltway and denigrate or wonder what the sinister purpose of building on the north side might be. I don't live on the north side, but still I frequently could use the savings of time and distance it will offer.

People actually lived in places like Hoover along the south beltway before it was built. It provides a nice shortcut from I-59 or I-20 to I-65 South or I-20/59. And it didn't take 39 years to build.

Originally Posted by preguntas

It will assuredly create a flow of money in so many ways that only those who choose can deny. (I know it is popular to hate capitalism now, but sorry, it works)

If the large landholders in Northern Jefferson County were paying for the road, that would be capitalism. Getting the government to pay for the road to stimulate development of their land holdings is not capitalism.

Originally Posted by preguntas

This discussion is so old and tired, not to mention really irrelevant at this point in time.

In my opinion it is still relevant, as it is not nearly too late for the state and metro area to reconsider this project.

Cheers!

[preguntas]

As I said, this is such an old subject; everything you have written has been going on and on. Most of the accusatory info is based on typical resentment that someone is getting something for nothing, or you are getting yours and I am not getting mine.


There are actually facts and demographics associated with this, as most such projects and most people that want to fight them appeal to the most ignorant of the population.


You mention Hoover; oh yes, tripled in size mostly building homes on land owned by AP or DC. Was it so bad that builders, real estate agents, materials wholesalers benefitted from all that, or just that AP, in particular made a profit off their land.


There is no difference. But if you see 459 as a short cut you reveal that you don't spend much time in the Cahaba Valley. It is literally main street. And connects some of the most intense developments in the metro area. Including providing a quick way for all the Mercedes employees, including brass a faster way to go home after work.
Btw, it took over thirty years to build and one section sat with no traffic for over a decade. It would seem some of us survived that and are quite glad it is there to enrich our lives.


Honestly one has to be embedded in a community to know how any type of infrastructure is going to serve, or if it is needed or even will be needed. This project represents one of the first times in Alabama that people looked forward and anticipated what will come and what was needed. If you don't understand that it may be because of where you live and can't understand the weight of being the main crossroad of a whole state and much of a region.

[Mississippi Alabama Line]

Originally Posted by cooldiver

If the large landholders in Northern Jefferson County were paying for the road, that would be capitalism. Getting the government to pay for the road to stimulate development of their land holdings is not capitalism.

Stop saying this dumb crap.

I agree that it doesn't appear to be needed, however many other people, involved in the actual planning process, DO think it's needed. So, if it's going to be constructed either way, it's easier to find cheap land, mostly owned by a single landowner, to do it. It's not some massive conspiracy to raise profits for the big, bad man. That is liberal feel the bern level BS.

You sound as if you are the typical Birmingham hater from Huntsville. Why don't you go celebrate your newest tax free development that will bring 1,000 low paying jobs? While you're at it, brag about how Birmingham is declining (while Shelby County is booming with new industry).

But yeah, the Birmingham-loving AL.com won't print that last part. They are eaten up with that liberal jealousy too, even within the Birmingham Metro Area.

[cooldiver]

Originally Posted by preguntas

If you don't understand that it may be because of where you live and can't understand the weight of being the main crossroad of a whole state and much of a region.

BTW I-459 took 16 years to build, not 30.

https://www.interstate-guide.com/i-459_al.html

History
Interstate 459 was originally designated Interstate 59B in 1958 and renumbered by 1961. Work on the route began in 19682 with the first stretch of freeway opened in 1978 between Interstates 20 and 59 between Irondale and northeast Birmingham.1 Completion of the route occurred in late 1984 with the opening of 5.2 miles of freeway, between Interstates 20 & 59 at Bessemer and Alabama 150 in Hoover, at a cost of $28.7-million.

Originally Posted by Mississippi Alabama Line

Stop saying this dumb crap.

Actually I have just as much right to my opinion as you do. I am not the only one with this opinion, as evidenced by the links I provided or by a simple google search.

Originally Posted by Mississippi Alabama Line

You sound as if you are the typical Birmingham hater from Huntsville. Why don't you go celebrate your newest tax free development that will bring 1,000 low paying jobs? While you're at it, brag about how Birmingham is declining (while Shelby County is booming with new industry).

Wow. I don't hate Birmingham. If you think I-422 will be great for Bham, that's your opinion and your privilege to have that opinion. My opinion is that it's a stupid waste of tax payer money. That doesn't equate to hating Birmingham.

I'm not here trolling this forum. I haven't posted anything against Birmingham.

I have the same low opinion of several proposed projects here in Huntsville. Doesn't mean I hate Huntsville.

Cheers!

[MinivanDriver]

I am an agnostic when it comes to 422, mostly because I'll likely be dead by the time it's finished. That being said, the northern tier of Jefferson county is underdeveloped and, truthfully, would be suitable for industrial/distribution development if there was a way to reach industrial sites in a quick and easy fashion.

[Mississippi Alabama Line]

Originally Posted by cooldiver

Actually I have just as much right to my opinion as you do. I am not the only one with this opinion, as evidenced by the links I provided or by a simple google search.

You're right, you and John Archibald and a few other people who don't know how things work.

Originally Posted by cooldiver

If you think I-422 will be great for Bham, that's your opinion and your privilege to have that opinion.

I never said that. Read the rest of my posts in this thread.

Just to be clear, do you don't redirect this deal - I disagreed on your take regarding the big bad landowners, not the beltline project.

[preguntas]

You don't even know why the construction numbers you linked can be published and still be wrong.
The road has been built along the milestones of my life, I know how long it took.


I don't get why you even post on such stuff. I don't post about the disaster Memorial is in Madison County, but why would I.