New York Times Article comparing Birmingham and Nashville (appointed, 2014)

[AU HSV]

Originally Posted by cherokee48

Hey, NY Times, don’t Nash my Birmingham
https://www.al.com/news/2018/12/hey-...irmingham.html

Nice response piece to the NY Times article. I liked the corporate extortion as economic development angle. I would prefer quality growth that nurtures Fortune 500 companies to luring them, but luring them shouldn't hurt either.

Actually seemed to reinforce the problem. Moderator cut: baiting
Good luck not doing incentives, you wont win that battle.
We are seeing glimpses of that now. One of the biggest game changers underway is the rebuilt interstate system downtown. When other cities did similar upgrades positive growth followed.

[JesseRohr]

Originally Posted by BamaDave

The natural beauty in the Birmingham area may not lure tourists, but it should be a selling point for newcomers looking for a great location where they can be active outdoors. Or even people who just want to be able to live in a beautiful, wooded, hilly natural setting.

Education is a big big problem. I work in the community college system, and I recall being at a seminar a few years ago with the state superintendent of education (K12) and the chancellor for the two year college system. Both talked about being in meetings with big manufacturers who wanted to locate in Alabama because they really liked the work ethic of the people. However, they couldn't because so many potential workers are poorly educated. I don't know what the solution is, but until Alabamians actually value education (not just the ones who've walled themselves off inside wealthy suburbs), it's hard to imagine much changing. Education inequity is a big mountain to try to move, and certainly not just for Birmingham.

I've been in manufacturing my entire adult working life, never has education been an issue for us to find quality talent, although we are not headquartered here.

Forgive me, but as one who works in the secondary education system I would believe you've got a bit of a bias towards the magic bullet to fix the metro. Nothing wrong with that, but I would just disagree. Skilled workers and educated workers are not one in the same.

I have a hard time believing clubbing residents over the head with more college is hardly an answer to attract businesses here. The residents leave here chasing high paying jobs available elsewhere because many of the other metros have more to offer.

[JesseRohr]

Originally Posted by AU HSV

Actually seemed to reinforce the problem. Moderator cut: baiting
Good luck not doing incentives, you wont win that battle.
We are seeing glimpses of that now. One of the biggest game changers underway is the rebuilt interstate system downtown. When other cities did similar upgrades positive growth followed.

We are 100% aligned here.

[AU HSV]

Originally Posted by JesseRohr

These numbers are pretty small in comparison to the previous stated cities, hence my original point.

Example (from 2017)
Tennessee- 20.8B
Nashville alone - 6.5B

Source - https://www.nashvillepost.com/busine...sitor-spending

New Orleans alone - 8.7B

Source - https://www.neworleans.com/articles/...cords-in-2017/

True but the positive is its growing. Another false comparison is Alabama to other states. We are a poor state compared to our neighbors and sheer population. More people live in the Atlanta metro (5.7 million) than the entire state of Alabama (4.8 million), so whatever stats people use aren't even going to come close to other areas or useful comparison.

[JesseRohr]

Originally Posted by AU HSV

True but the positive is its growing. Another false comparison is Alabama to other states. We are a poor state compared to our neighbors and sheer population. More people live in the Atlanta metro (5.7 million) than the entire state of Alabama (4.8 million), so whatever stats people use aren't even going to come close to other areas or useful comparison.

I moved from a similar population sized state (Kentucky) and the tourism impact is still quite larger.

[jero23]

The issues with Alabama Tourism is that until recently (meaning the past 5 years) most of it has only been focused upon the Gulf Coast. It was only until recently the only thing Alabama Tourism (the state agency that does that) only mentioned Vulcan Statue and Riverchase Galleria as the only tourism spots in the Greater Birmingham area. That tells you all you need to know. Most of the tourism that has been generated recently of was led by GBCVB aka "IN Birmingham" campaign. They are going it alone because as you might or might not know, the State of Alabama has something against the more progressive areas of the state, i.e. Birmingham and lesser extent Huntsville. The Ol' Mules of the state want those areas to remain as is and only get meager shine and maintaining the bloated Alabama Constitution (which instills most power in Montgomery), thus it the continuation of the norm (slow growth and change). However, Birmingham is bucking up against that now with the present day leadership. I don't 100% agree with the current leadership on everything, but it is making inroads where things were stalled in the past like tourism.

[bfmx1]

That article asked to be compared to Austin?

I go back to tourism. There's literally nothing in Jefferson/Shelby counties that drive tourism except concerts and certain conventions downtown.

Oak Mountain, Red Mountain Park, Taverns, etc do not bring more than a small handful of people to Bham to visit. These are not unique nor are they even that impressive to anyone living in TN or GA or most other states who have a much better and more robust state park system.

Someone above said "urban biking" I think. Really? There's not a single trail besides Homewood and that ain't urban. No one is coming to Bham to rent a bike to ride the sidewalks.

When it comes to outdoor activities in mid/north AL, go to Huntsville. Better yet, just drive on to Chattanooga or Gatlinburg.

Even if you think this is only my opinion, the facts still remain the same. Almost NO ONE travels to Birmingham for Oak Mountain, Red Mountain, Rotary Trail, etc. So we cannot talk about its potential tourism for it's natural beauty because it's had that for centuries and still no one comes to Birmingham because it's beautiful or for recreation.

The best tourism draw to the area is the Civil Rights Institute or perhaps events like the MCC or similar.

[Julio July]

Very interesting article and very open and honest dialogue about Birmingham going on in this thread from the locals. I wish Memphis locals would be as open, honest, receptive, and self-reflective as the Birmingham locals seem to be in this thread, and then Memphis---a city with a lot of similar problems to Birmingham---might not be as far behind Nashville as it is today.

[_OT]

Originally Posted by bfmx1

Again, I say look at the numbers.. You just won't find that people are coming to town for outdoor activities. The whole idea that somehow Bham has been overlooked in this area is absurd.

When you think about it; not a lot of people are traveling to cities for outdoor activities, maybe LA and Miami, but it’s not really common as you may think. Not even Austin or Nashville.

[bfmx1]

Originally Posted by JesseRohr

We are slightly aligned here but I think some self promotion for what we have is still justified. Is Red Mountain as nice as the River Walk in San Antonio or Barton Creek in Austin? Nope. Are the mountains as good as the Smokies or Appalachian Trail in TN? Nope. They're what we have to work with.

My statement is that if BHM were to throw some cash at both self promotion via a tourism campaign while simultaneously plowing the additional revenue back into the assets they could quickly become things that attract people...even if it's an extra day on the tail end of a business trip.

Praying someone just throws a dart and hits BHM on a map for a vacation spot isn't working so well for us now.

Kinda agree. I think Red Mountain park has great potential but it needs to be "awesome" not "oh that's nice".

I don't really think Bham should be using its money to promote it's lacking outdoor activities though. If it were an outdoor adventure destination, sure, but it's not. Or if the city had lots of extra cash to throw around, sure, but it doesn't.

I'm just not sure that promoting tourism would be a winning battle. You're competing against really cool tourism options like Country Music, Broadway, Opryland hotel, NFL, NHL, Nashville convention center etc.

After the BJCC renovation though, then yes because you have something decent to lure people/conventions.