Birmingham, Alabama. Opinions? (Mobile, Hoover, Homewood: crime rate, buying, school district)

[cartag]

Originally Posted by bluebeard

For example, the fact that what I consider to be hate speech was present on this board, but no one attacked it (unless it pertained to blacks) shows a very strong difference of ideas even between me and the people on this board, to the extent that I find highly offensive.

Yes, I think some of us southerners tend to be more sensitive to "hate speech" when it pertains to blacks. We didn't cause what happened in the past, but we do feel bad about it. Your problem may be that you tend to think of people as lumped together in groups, such as "the people on this board" whom you imagine all have "a very strong difference of ideas" from you. That's called prejudice. We are all individuals and some of us may agree with you on some of your ideas.

However, I have my sets of values, just as everyone does, and most of Birmingham's just tends not to match how I view the world. Me being down on the place is a result of me not fitting in and feeling overly judged as compared to other places.

I think you would fit in much better if you stopped judging the people around you and started seeing them as individuals, who may have something in common with you and who may be likeable after all. People tend to like people who are interested in them as individuals. They tend to distrust folks who are hostile to their way of life. You don't have to convert to southernism to be interested in the people around you and their ideas. What a shame you are missing this opportunity.

[cpg35223]

Originally Posted by bluebeard

I missed the Pompeii exhibit. I told myself I was going to go basically the whole time it visited. Stupid me.
The brewfest is probably my favorite yearly festival. I volunteered last year and it was a ton of fun. The film festival and gay film festival are both entertaining as well. My girlfriend loves animals, so she loves the pet parade in Highland. The civil rights museum is really good.

I think in my opinion what I miss the most about other places is not supposed "culture" in the manner of being on nationally and internationally recognized lists by experts of whatever, but a certain diversity. When you've grown up in places that have it, and are part of it as well, that becomes an entrenched part of your value system and it really tugs you back so a similar style place, and you can really feel out of place in a place that isn't like that. For example, the fact that what I consider to be hate speech was present on this board, but no one attacked it (unless it pertained to blacks) shows a very strong difference of ideas even between me and the people on this board, to the extent that I find highly offensive. Not to mention I specifically miss the food available where I grew up. Not because it's high culture, but because its what I'm used to, its my comfort food. It's hard feeling you're always noticed for being different. In the end, birds of a feather flock together, people always self-segregate and it takes a person greater than me to fight that trend. It hardly makes a place inherently better or worse. In some abstract sense I believe there are no better or worse places. your opinion of a place is based on your own expoerience which is largely based on chance, who you happened to meet, etc... However, I have my sets of values, just as everyone does, and most of Birmingham's just tends not to match how I view the world. Me being down on the place is a result of me not fitting in and feeling overly judged as compared to other places.

Well, here's the deal, BB. You strike me as a self-styled bomb thrower. Here you made some very broad, sweeping ad hominem generalizations about a town we like in a rather arrogant fashion, and then are amazed when you are greeted with a hostile response. I don't know. Maybe you just haven't learned the finer points of voicing dissenting opinions in a constructive fashion.

So let's look at your original posting on this thread, shall we? M

"I've been in Birmingham for 3 years. As soon as I finish my degree, I'm running far, far away. Yes, the people are nice, but the people nice in my hometown. Another major positive is affordability. The nature is pretty and accessible, but hardly unique (most states have some sort of natural beauty). Other than that, there's nothing much else to like about it. The horrendous summers last 5 months long and you spend them inside. Inside everyone over-air-conditions their places so I feel like I'm always getting sick (hot-cold-hot-cold-hot-cold). It's boring. The food sucks (Surin? Please...) Everyone ASSUMES that my life experience and beliefs are theirs, and that anyone who's wasn't is some freakish exception (from religious beliefs, to particular pop culture references, expected cultural exposures, daily habits, everything).[/b] Maybe thats true everywhere, but its so far from myself that it particularly strikes me. THe city is an empty-dead shell and the suburbs lack any coherence, city planning, or soul for that matter (sidewalks anyone?)"


Let's see...run far far away? As in this is a horrible place to live? I've lived all over, including Maryland, San Diego, Chicago, etc. etc. I come from a music background and participate in the arts. And, compared to those places, Birmingham isn't a cultural mecca. On the flip side, it's a very livable place to work and raise a family. It's a shame you don't understand that.

Boring? Again, I've lived in some great places and done a lot of stuff. And one thing that I've found that there are very few boring places (Although I'd be very tempted to cite Montgomery as an exception). Only boring, unimaginative people who can't step outside their comfort zone to entertain themselves. Why a quick scan through the pages of Black & White shows literally pages upon pages of events and organizations to cater to every avocation possible. Yet, somehow, you're bored. That, my friend, is your fault--not the city where you live. Oh, and actually snickering at another poster shows really bad form. It is supercilious beyond belief. Quite frankly, you should be embarrassed at such condescension. It is not the mark of a person of either culture or intellect. It is the juvenile tearing down of someone else to make yourself superior.

Let's move on to your facile description of the suburbs as "soulless." Aside from cribbing that from someplace, what exactly do you base that on? I'm fairly certain that, reading your other posts, you've never spent more than a nanosecond engaging anybody outside your insular little world in conversation. How do you really know what is in their hearts?

[lesallimc]

I grew up in Birmingham, but I have lived in Los Angeles for the past seven years. It is amazing to me how when I moved to LA I was so open to whatever I found, but people in LA have such preconceived, negative opinions about Birmingham and the South in general. Even if you try to educate most people, they laugh you off and assume you are lying. I've enjoyed my time in LA but will definitely be heading "back east" at some point. When I visit Birmingham now, I don't take it for granted anymore. It also cracks me up that people characterize southerners as "ignorant". I've been a freaking superstar in the job market ever since I've hit LA, and I feel like my skills may have slipped a little since leaving B'ham. Anyone considering moving to Birmingham for work and/or family won't be disappointed.

[bluebeard]

Addressing the generalities of Birmingham:
It's hard to explain why I don't fit in. I've tried to earlier, but to no avail. I think it would require a different method of explanation other than this forum. I still maintain that, in general, people have far different values and ideas and that because of my background and ethnicity, its hard to just be perceived as normal or non-noticable, which is all most of us want to do (unless you're some sort of fame or status seeker). I don't really want to get any more into it than that.
As for this place being boring: Sure there are some expensive things to do and expensive restaurants, but I don't have the money for those things. Its occasional that there is a band that I don't really care for that plays in a park or some other event (which I go to see anyway because its fun to hang outside in a group). And I don't have the money for a car that is required to get everywhere in this area. The few good restaurants I like are scattered throughout the city and metropolitan area. Soulless? It is no doubt that by my opinion (I'm sure I didn't invent that cheesy phrase and that the idea isn't original, but what idea is? I didn't directly crib it from somewhere specific.) The Birmingham suburbs are especially dense with manufactured developments and sidewalk-less streets (as opposed to some beautiful or formerly beautiful old Birmingham and a few other small, older suburban neighborhoods). Try walking down Green Springs or crossing from Galleria across the street to shop. It's an exercise in faith. Birmingham is generally less interesting to me because its activities are more out of my reach and less accessible. This is not true for every place I've been to, and I find places to be genuinely different from each other, some more interesting and appealling than others.
I have engaged in more variety than you assume, but I am speaking in generalities because this is about the general place, not specific people I've met or occasions I've taken part in. It's missed again that I'm not looking for a cultural mecca. An interesting place, or a place I feel connected with need not be "high-culture" in that traditional sense that has been expressed repeatedly here.
Birmingham just lacks a lot of the positive values that I see of the US. Different places have different general values and ethics. It's not specifically about relgions, politics, etc... It's a larger worldview and understanding of it. It is not something I hold as being exclusive to cultured or non-cultured or whatever enlightened person you may think I think I am. It's just a way of being raised. Different character qualities were seen as positive and negative here as compared to where I grew up. That's it. As for living in a place that's different, well, like I said, we all just want to be normal. I guarantee that every one on this board and most people in the world live in specific neighborhoods or areas partially because of the like-minded people in that area. I can live anywhere for, say, 2 years and maintain a level of curiosity. After that, you just want to move on if you don't like it that much.
Just as I may be silly for being amazed at expecting some hostile response, but not to this extent, anyone who asks for opinions on a general place and gets negative generalities about it shouldn't be so surprised as well. Much of what I say represents my opinion, the parts that were put arrogantly or not. (The only point I marginally accept was the snickering comment was rude, but I suppose my sense of humor doesn't go over well here). Anyway, the cease-fire has quickly fallen and this has turn back into the prejudging of the supposedly prejudiced and more personal attacks and assumptions about my personal life. while I have already largely failed to resist the temptation to further address one-by-one attacks that encourage us getting off-topic again, I have done my best to keep it about my personal and general opinions about Birmingham.

[bluebeard]

Originally Posted by lesallimc

I grew up in Birmingham, but I have lived in Los Angeles for the past seven years. It is amazing to me how when I moved to LA I was so open to whatever I found, but people in LA have such preconceived, negative opinions about Birmingham and the South in general. Even if you try to educate most people, they laugh you off and assume you are lying. I've enjoyed my time in LA but will definitely be heading "back east" at some point. When I visit Birmingham now, I don't take it for granted anymore. It also cracks me up that people characterize southerners as "ignorant". I've been a freaking superstar in the job market ever since I've hit LA, and I feel like my skills may have slipped a little since leaving B'ham. Anyone considering moving to Birmingham for work and/or family won't be disappointed.

I think here-in lies the problem as the reason for the defensiveness. I fully agree with the statements here. People in other areas have no clue about what it's actually like here. You'd be surprised to find me defending Birmingham when I'm away. However, it doesn't mean that one shouldn't recognize and point out its faults, which it has like any other place. I guess I saw some people here being overly positive in certain ways, and I overreacted in the reverse direction. Plus, you can see the "people in LA have...". Generalities work in both directions.

[lesallimc]

Originally Posted by bluebeard

I think here-in lies the problem as the reason for the defensiveness. I fully agree with the statements here. People in other areas have no clue about what it's actually like here. You'd be surprised to find me defending Birmingham when I'm away. However, it doesn't mean that one shouldn't recognize and point out its faults, which it has like any other place. I guess I saw some people here being overly positive in certain ways, and I overreacted in the reverse direction. Plus, you can see the "people in LA have...". Generalities work in both directions.

You make good points. I guess since I get negative responses over 90% of the time I feel justified in using "people in LA". Remember, I'm speaking from my own personal experiences. Yes, all cities have problems, but I am speaking about people making judgements about a city they have never been to that are completely inaccurate (e.g. NO good schools, NO good housing, etc...)

[bluebeard]

Originally Posted by lesallimc

You make good points. I guess since I get negative responses over 90% of the time I feel justified in using "people in LA". Remember, I'm speaking from my own personal experiences. Yes, all cities have problems, but I am speaking about people making judgements about a city they have never been to that are completely inaccurate (e.g. NO good schools, NO good housing, etc...)

Right. I'm sure that's true and I have no problem with you saying that LA people have the wrong idea of the south, because generally, they do. People pick out specific things (say, the fact that, they a portion of the highway in Arkansas adopted by the KKK) and focus on these things. Confederate flags and a decent proportion of the people in some places leave me unsettled, but talking to people back home I make sure to show that this is just one side.

[Southlander]

bluebeard, I encourage you to get away from Birmingham as soon as possible. Everybody ought to go somewhere else and live for a while. It's a broadening experience.
Only then will you appreciate what Birmingham has to offer.
God bless!

[bluebeard]

Originally Posted by Southlander

bluebeard, I encourage you to get away from Birmingham as soon as possible. Everybody ought to go somewhere else and live for a while. It's a broadening experience.
Only then will you appreciate what Birmingham has to offer.
God bless!

I have lived in multiple places and multiple countries already. This is far from the 1st or 2nd I've lived, gone to school, or worked. Thanks for the good wishes though!

[ohiobarb]

We visited Birmingham about 3 weeks ago, looking into a possible move in late September, early October. We really liked the city and most of the people we met. It wasn't what I expected, but was charmed by the city and all it has to offer. We currently live 30 miles from Cincinnati and we
rarely visit because of the crime, drugs and parking situation. We will be
near Pell City, Leeds area, so definitely close enough to get into the city
often. Can't wait to continue exploring. Anyone live near Pell City that could give me some good info on housing would be greatly appreciated.
We have a 4 year old, so I would like to find a good school district. We
would like to lease for about a year before buying. Thanks