Birmingham, Alabama. Opinions? (Huntsville, Homewood, Mountain Brook: house prices, transfer, safe area)

[Bravo35223]

Originally Posted by JS20000

I am more than qualified to speak about Houston because I lived there. I really do not like to indulge in threads that bash other cities out of spite but I will say that every city I've lived in has had its positives and negatives (I may be repeating myself from a previous posting).
IMO, topography is only a component of numerous factors that can lead to a "like it or leave it" decision. I did not like Houston's flatness either, but so what? Houston has a much, much livelier atmosphere, lots more amenities for all forms of entertainment, the beaches in Galveston are not too far away, and if you shop, you couldn't ask for a better place than the Galleria (Riverchase Galleria is actually a downscaled version of this mall-designed by the same architect firm). Houston's crime rate is better, per capita of course.
Houston does have sweltering humidity (I had to run my AC 363 days there), the traffic is unrelenting (the 59 freeway is off limits until 7 pm), and the constant threat of hurricanes does lead to some uneasiness about the region. If the right job offer came along, I still wouldn't mind returning to Houston-even though I personally think Dallas is a better city between the two.
Birmingham has its good points, as they have been elaborated rather profusely here, but I believe in giving equal weight to both sides of an argument. Birmingham's crime rate can not be ignored-from a national perspective there are few major cities doing worse in this regard. The poverty rates in Birmingham proper are another concern, for this a contributing factor to the crime rate (this speaks volumes for the economic health and stability of the region). Lack of cooperation between administrators and the surrounding municipalities are the proverbial "nails in the coffin" (Nashville, Knoxville, Louisville, Mobile, and Miami should serve as models for inter-community cohesion).
I believe Birmingham should have a lot more to offer than just lush scenery and hilly terrain.

Well if you read the post above, with numerous references to national publications rating Birmingham's bars and restaurants as among the best in the nation, you will see that it does have " a lot more to offer than just lush scenery and hilly terrain". It amazes me how people come on here and make statements while totally ignoring numerous articles (in these cases many from NYC) praising the fact that Birmingham has much to offer from a dining and entertainment standpoint....add to that a well respected Symphony and the largest municipally-owned art museum in the southeast. All of this with a much better climate, four genuine seasons with a beautiful Fall and Spring, and frankly the QUALITY of life is superior to Houston or Dallas.

There is a fellow who lives down the street from me. He grew up in the Dallas suburb of Richardson. Got married and had two children. Then found that he was going to have to put his children in private schools, or move to Highland Park, to get the kind of education and environment for his children that he wanted. He has family here and began to inquire about our suburban schools and pulled up stakes and made the move. Children are coming out of public school system and going to Duke.

I lived in San Antonio for three years and really enjoyed it...but there were two consistent things I took away from living there:

1) Quantity is a big measuring stick for Texans.
2) I was amazed at how often they had come to the conclusion that where they lived was superior while simultaneously, they had done very little traveling outside their area.

As to your assertion about crime in "Birmingham". You are right that within the city limits of Birmingham, crime is a problem. The thing you may not realize is that the Birmingham SMSA has a population of 1.1 million people, of which 240,000 live within the city limits of Birmingham- this means the classic 80/20 rule is applicable...80% of Birminghamians do not live in Birmingham...they live in a series of suburban communities with their own police, fire, government and schools....and many are superb....therefore when talking about "Birmingham" you must realize that the vast, vast majority of residents live in extremely safe neighborhoods, with excellent schools and government.

I know at least 10 couples I can name off hand, who have moved here to educate their children.

Atlanta is organized the same way - metro pop. of 4 million with 450,000 living "in Atlanta". The remainder in suburban communities with total control over zoning, police/fire etc. "Atlanta" has the same bad crime statistics, while simultaneously 80% of the metro population lives in very safe, secure neighborhoods.


but the whole "build it and they will come" mentality can only become a boon to the region if the region has visibility (this would be analagous to building a domed stadium and entertainment venues in Tulsa). I may have digressed, but if you can give me a city with the climate and scenery of Birmingham, the amenities of Houston, the crime rate of Knoxville, and the traffic volume of Milwaukee then I will be set.

.......................

[bluebeard]

Bravo-
As I've mentioned before, I could care less about national recognition. This is proof of very little. Ratings in general are not really valid. Sometime's even political. Sometimes I've seen ratings that are utterly ridiculous. Remember as has been said, places offer subjective experiences.
Besides, proof of opinion? That's a ridiculous request. Birmingham, is, in fact, not culturally diverse. Just look at the city-data page. It will tell you the city is less than 3% black or white and about 2% foreign-born. A quick look on the census will tell you that the metropolitan area is less than 4% non-black or white and about 2% foreign born. Most of the things I miss are based around the fact that I'm used to diversity. I suppose my definiton of cosmopolitan is different. Even my definition of diversity. I had a friend from DC that was moving here at the same time as I was that liked it a little more because of its diversity. It took me a while to realize we were speaking a different language. For her it meant races (eg, black people). For me it means large representations from different cultures around the world.
You want to talk about people who are removed form reality? How about the fact that the great food you suggested are two higher-end restaurants. Who can afford that? I've managed to make it to Highlands for a special celebration. The price, while EXTREMELY reasonable for the type of restaurant that it is, is prohibitive for me and most of America. Given that, it was pretty good. For European style food I'd much rather go to Bettola. This is one of the few restaurants that's quite a find. It has food that could be going for $20-30, but is extremely affordable given the quality. I don't know how they do it (I'm guessing it's
Aside from that, there are a sprinkling of restaurants I enjoy:
Silver Coin is genuinely as good of Indian food as you'll find in most places. (Taj India is seriously horrible.)
Gordo's on Valley has a market and lunch place reminiscent of taco-trucks that pretty good, assuming you don't go too late. Rojo isn't bad. La Cantina is decent, but pricey. All other Mexican and Latin places are some sort of chesse-smothered concoctions. I really don't understand it. You can go to a place filled with other Hispanics, and still the food is so Southernized.
Red Pearl is pretty much the only actual Chinese place in town.
The Vietnamese place on green srpings blows.
There's a decent Korean place near the Vietnamese place. I wanted to like the one on green springs in the back of the market, but after I had a few seafood dishes I couldn't stand it.
The Bessemer outlet mall, of all places, has really good Cajun-ish food. This is another place I will genuinely miss when I leave. This is the closest to Southern food I can enjoy. I'm not much into deep-fried stuff and meaty, super heavy dishes. Although I do enjoy a BBQ treat once every month or two.
There's a smattering of mediocre to decent middle eastern places. Pita stop at lunch has very affordable and good food. Nabeels isn't bad. The new place in 5 points, Makairos, has some darn good dishes.
And that's about it for me. Without a car, that leaves very few that I can actually access when I like.
I guess when I talk of things to do, food is a huge part of it. Going to an affordable, but great restaurant is a huge part of the "things to do".
For the most part, I don't enjoy the music scene here. I was a roommie with a friend from Kentucky a while back that said there was a budding indie rock scene here. Haven't seen much myself. Bottletree has some genuinely good acts at reasonable prices. Before that there wasn't much. An occasional rock, folk, or blues group that was decent.
As as student, I can get cheap access to Alys Stepens, which has allowed me some opportunities to see things I often can't. This year they raised the prices though and there doesn't seem to be anything I want to see. However, that stuff isn't really my style anyway, just more of an experience.
All of these things took a long time to discover as well, and are unnaccessible to me, largely due to finances. Many of the other events I've gotten into I attended because I was friends with someone who was involved with putting it on, or volunteered at the event, etc.
I am outdoors far more than the average person here. It is common for streets to be empty, with only me not in a car. This is true of many more "cosmopolitan" places as well, (although seldom to the same extent as here), such as many areas of LA. The good food in Atlanta requires a 20 minutes drive away from the city center. However, there are other places I have lived that are not so. Reasonably prices food, events that are free to the public, and easily accessible to those that don't want to spend a ton of money on transportation. I guess my whole concept of places is different. I don't consider places a half-hour drive away to be largely relevant to my daily life. This is just what I'm used to thinking. I'm currently waiting to see if I can rent a car for the weekend. For some reason, the rental places are always sold out.
Like I said, this is what I'm used to. East Asian food is my home-cooking, and Mexican food is a close second. My America is a different one than here, and I certainly miss it. I'm glad I came to visit and live here for the time I'm here. I really am. But I definitely will be leaving to go to a place that is more my style.

[bluebeard]

Oh and about sidewalks and such. Sure, Mountain Brook has some sort of law you need at least one on every road, I believe. That's like saying Bevery Hills has anything to do with the rest of LA. I've been to many friend's places in Hoover, Vestavia, etc... I've seen and walked these places. I can't even visit places on Green Springs less than 2 miles away because I'll get run over. The bus to Homewood isn't too bad though.

[Bravo35223]

Originally Posted by bluebeard

Bravo-
As I've mentioned before, I could care less about national recognition. This is proof of very little. Ratings in general are not really valid. Sometime's even political. Sometimes I've seen ratings that are utterly ridiculous. Remember as has been said, places offer subjective experiences.
Besides, proof of opinion? That's a ridiculous request. Birmingham, is, in fact, not culturally diverse. Just look at the city-data page. It will tell you the city is less than 3% black or white and about 2% foreign-born. A quick look on the census will tell you that the metropolitan area is less than 4% non-black or white and about 2% foreign born. Most of the things I miss are based around the fact that I'm used to diversity. I suppose my definiton of cosmopolitan is different. Even my definition of diversity. I had a friend from DC that was moving here at the same time as I was that liked it a little more because of its diversity. It took me a while to realize we were speaking a different language. For her it meant races (eg, black people). For me it means large representations from different cultures around the world.
You want to talk about people who are removed form reality? How about the fact that the great food you suggested are two higher-end restaurants. Who can afford that? I've managed to make it to Highlands for a special celebration. The price, while EXTREMELY reasonable for the type of restaurant that it is, is prohibitive for me and most of America. Given that, it was pretty good. For European style food I'd much rather go to Bettola. This is one of the few restaurants that's quite a find. It has food that could be going for $20-30, but is extremely affordable given the quality. I don't know how they do it (I'm guessing it's
Aside from that, there are a sprinkling of restaurants I enjoy:
Silver Coin is genuinely as good of Indian food as you'll find in most places. (Taj India is seriously horrible.)
Gordo's on Valley has a market and lunch place reminiscent of taco-trucks that pretty good, assuming you don't go too late. Rojo isn't bad. La Cantina is decent, but pricey. All other Mexican and Latin places are some sort of chesse-smothered concoctions. I really don't understand it. You can go to a place filled with other Hispanics, and still the food is so Southernized.
Red Pearl is pretty much the only actual Chinese place in town.
The Vietnamese place on green srpings blows.
There's a decent Korean place near the Vietnamese place. I wanted to like the one on green springs in the back of the market, but after I had a few seafood dishes I couldn't stand it.
The Bessemer outlet mall, of all places, has really good Cajun-ish food. This is another place I will genuinely miss when I leave. This is the closest to Southern food I can enjoy. I'm not much into deep-fried stuff and meaty, super heavy dishes. Although I do enjoy a BBQ treat once every month or two.
There's a smattering of mediocre to decent middle eastern places. Pita stop at lunch has very affordable and good food. Nabeels isn't bad. The new place in 5 points, Makairos, has some darn good dishes.
And that's about it for me. Without a car, that leaves very few that I can actually access when I like.
I guess when I talk of things to do, food is a huge part of it. Going to an affordable, but great restaurant is a huge part of the "things to do".
For the most part, I don't enjoy the music scene here. I was a roommie with a friend from Kentucky a while back that said there was a budding indie rock scene here. Haven't seen much myself. Bottletree has some genuinely good acts at reasonable prices. Before that there wasn't much. An occasional rock, folk, or blues group that was decent.
As as student, I can get cheap access to Alys Stepens, which has allowed me some opportunities to see things I often can't. This year they raised the prices though and there doesn't seem to be anything I want to see. However, that stuff isn't really my style anyway, just more of an experience.
All of these things took a long time to discover as well, and are unnaccessible to me, largely due to finances. Many of the other events I've gotten into I attended because I was friends with someone who was involved with putting it on, or volunteered at the event, etc.
I am outdoors far more than the average person here. It is common for streets to be empty, with only me not in a car. This is true of many more "cosmopolitan" places as well, (although seldom to the same extent as here), such as many areas of LA. The good food in Atlanta requires a 20 minutes drive away from the city center. However, there are other places I have lived that are not so. Reasonably prices food, events that are free to the public, and easily accessible to those that don't want to spend a ton of money on transportation. I guess my whole concept of places is different. I don't consider places a half-hour drive away to be largely relevant to my daily life. This is just what I'm used to thinking. I'm currently waiting to see if I can rent a car for the weekend. For some reason, the rental places are always sold out.
Like I said, this is what I'm used to. East Asian food is my home-cooking, and Mexican food is a close second. My America is a different one than here, and I certainly miss it. I'm glad I came to visit and live here for the time I'm here. I really am. But I definitely will be leaving to go to a place that is more my style.

Do you need proof that man landed on the moon? Proof there was a Holocaust?

There are many people out there such as yourself, when presented with high-quality, 3rd party documentation, simply blow it off - such as Holocaust Deniers.

You assert the city is "not cosmopolitan". I bring much 3rd party data (much written from writers in New York) to the contrary. You say "I could care less about national recognition"...honestly, what do you think the average reader thinks about someone who says, "I could care less about national recognition? You are on the very slipperyist of slopes and sliding downward with that sort of logic.

Well that's fine...and obviously you are someone that when presented with such material "go into a state of denial" of the truth.

I can appreciate you are on a tight budget being a student. This site is for adults who are researching a move to a new city. They want to know about: cost of living, quality of healthcare, crime factors, quality of education, availabiliy of cultural activities, etc. And you come on and quite wrongly give these site visitors an opinion that "its not cosmopolitan".

Then we read your posts and discover the truth: you are a college student on a tight budget and cannot afford to access the obviously cosmopolitan assets of the city. That is the real conclusion here.

When I was in college, I had enough money to go to a top notch club such as WorkPlay or The Nick or Zydeco...and have a great time with contemporaries. It is too bad that your budget will not permit this, or even the "FREE" admission to the Birmingham Museum of Art.

Good luck wherever you go...but I think a little maturity on your part in your worldview will help your outlook on life substantially...

[Bravo35223]

Originally Posted by bluebeard

Oh and about sidewalks and such. Sure, Mountain Brook has some sort of law you need at least one on every road, I believe. That's like saying Bevery Hills has anything to do with the rest of LA. I've been to many friend's places in Hoover, Vestavia, etc... I've seen and walked these places. I can't even visit places on Green Springs less than 2 miles away because I'll get run over. The bus to Homewood isn't too bad though.

But you have asserted there are 'no sidewalks" when indeed the facts support that there are miles and miles....you are in the same "lack of factual loop" that you started with. There's one right in front of my house in Mountain Brook which leads to the closest grocery store, video store, dry cleaners etc....about a mile away.

Exit Highway 31 in Vestavia and drive down Shades Crest Road toward 280. You will drive along a continous 2 mile sidewalk that runs next to that street...and both communities are steadily building more under a Federal grant.

[bluebeard]

Originally Posted by Bravo35223

But you have asserted there are 'no sidewalks" when indeed the facts support that there are miles and miles....you are in the same "lack of factual loop" that you started with.

I 've walked and ridden on the non-sidewalks. In the dirt, or in the street at times. There are miles and miles, but many more miles and miles of roads without sidewalks. I am not the only one with this opinion:
http://www.city-data.com/forum/birmi...ear-b-ham.html
and the introductory paragraphs on this
www.shelbycountyalabama.com/News_Events/new.pdf/SC_BikingandHiking.pdf

Anyways,
You have succeeded in driving me off. Happy happy for you! You have compared me to Holocaust deniers which is offensive beyod belief. The hate and personal attacks on this board are allowed from certain viewpoints, but not from others. It's like a gang or exclusive club here. You don't know how old I am, my financial background or anything about me. You are so wrong it's ridiculous. Plus, I didn't realize you got to dictate the utility of this site and who gets to read it. Awesome! Have fun guys!

[Bravo35223]

Originally Posted by bluebeard

I 've walked and ridden on the non-sidewalks. In the dirt, or in the street at times. There are miles and miles, but many more miles and miles of roads without sidewalks. I am not the only one with this opinion:
http://www.city-data.com/forum/birmi...ear-b-ham.html
and the introductory paragraphs on this
www.shelbycountyalabama.com/News_Events/new.pdf/SC_BikingandHiking.pdf

Anyways,
You have succeeded in driving me off. Happy happy for you! You have compared me to Holocaust deniers which is offensive beyod belief. The hate and personal attacks on this board are allowed from certain viewpoints, but not from others. You don't know how old I am, my financial background or anything about me. You are so wrong it's ridiculous. Awesome! Have fun guys!

First, I appreciated your report on hiking and biking in Shelby County. The report was mixed: It indeed indicated a need for more sidewalks in the County (to support your assertion - well done you are learning!). On the other hand, it shared many, many locations within the County with current access to hiking, biking and walking which are available now. So the conclusion is: while there is quite a bit there now - much more is needed, let's put a plan together to make it better, rather than ignoring the issue. This fine report does not conclude that "there are no sidewalks" or "access to hiking and biking is nil". The astute reader will be pointed to those locations (such as the 10,000 acre Oak Mountain State Park) where the hiker, biker or walker has miles and miles of access...

I appreciated getting to read the report you referenced. It was well documented and helped me get a better understanding of the situation there. The last thing I am going to say in reaction to reading your data is, "I don't care about the facts in your report." To the contrary, it brings out good information, both postive and negative.

I am not stating any hate toward you at all...simply comparing your consistent behavior to react to large quantities of 3rd party data by simply blowing it off...when you get out of college and must make a presentation in a public or private setting, where you are advancing a point of view or assertion, I would advise that you be well prepared with 3rd party data to support your POV. Last, if I offended you - I apologize...sincerely...

[bluebeard]

Originally Posted by Bravo35223

I am not stating any hate toward you at all...simply comparing your consistent behavior to react to large quantities of 3rd party data by simply blowing it off...when you get out of college and must make a presentation in a public or private setting, where you are advancing a point of view or assertion, I would advise that you be well prepared with 3rd party data to support your POV.

It's the way the world works...

Yeah, the best part is you honestly probably don't even know you're being offensive. Or if you do, then you're just a liar. Either way, have fun in Mountain, connected with reality.

[Bravo35223]

Originally Posted by bluebeard

Yeah, the best part is you honestly probably don't even know you're being offensive. Or if you do, then you're just a liar. Either way, have fun in Mountain, connected with reality.

What am I lying about and of course...be specific please.

[coastalnc]

and we liked it very much. Just one question....when will they fix the roads??? Our vehicle was beat to death on 65, 280, Lakeshore, etc.... worst roads of any state I have ever visited.