Light Rail in Birmingham! (apartment, rent, mortgage)

[Laocoön]

Originally Posted by marmac

From the start of planning light rail, to the actual approval, to the start and completion is a lengthy and heavily debated process.

Where is Birmingham now?

If they aren't even in the planning stage yet, this discussion about light rail in Birmingham is a moot point.

Amen, and thank you! The moot point point is a point I wish I'd made in my previous points.

My posts have been attempts, and perhaps unsuccessful ones, at demonstrating the futility of the project because of the lack of desire of the populace, but most importantly, of the power players. I have also tried to demonstrate that the driving culture is so entrenched here, and that the vast, vast majority of Birminghamians are so addicted to their vehicular "freedom," that they would literally all have to die off before the discussion could gain traction and the light rail could get on track. People just don't get how pathological this affliction is. Mainly because they all suffer from it. Denial. And the ones that want to build it certainly wouldn't be riding it themselves.

It's sad, and maddening, that Birminghamians won't face up to their vehicular affliction. They could get help if they would only identify the problem. But they won't. This recession has proved it. I've seen people lose their homes and be evicted from their apartments before they will let go of their cars. I even overheard one Mountain Brook father consult his son, who was in financial straits and only had the funds to save his car from repossession or his butt from eviction, "If I had to choose between making the car payment or paying the rent, I'd choose to make the car payment." I know of another situation where a man in financial straits was advised by another, "Hey, as long as you have wheels, you'll be okay. That's priority number one. No wheels, no job, and no life."

Equally frustrating are the booster types, especially the ones transplanted from alpha cities, who just can't let go of the dream.

[B-ham 34]

Originally Posted by dmagoku

When did he say it was small? How is this relevent to the point of the post.

Please read his 3rd paragragh, where he state comparison to other major cities isn't even fair, as to say B-ham is small!!!

[B-ham 34]

Originally Posted by marmac

Light rail is very expensive to get it up and running.

Are there cities/metro areas the size of Birmingham or smaller that have light rail?

In Minneapolis, it was a 16 year battle to get light rail and Minneapolis is a lot bigger than Birminham.

(IMHO) I believe it helps to have major league sports in a city that puts light rail in. It can be utilized more in off work hours by transporting people to the stadiums/arenas for games.

In Minneapolis, light rail is great transportation for Timber Wolves, Wild, Twins, and Viking games and bring a lot of business to downrown on game day/game nights.

That is 4 pro sports teams in downtown MPLS.
None in Birmingham.

Also a huge attraction is Mall of America that is serviced by the light rail in Minneapolis.

Yes cities such as Salt Lake city and Portland have the systems but then again they also have the major league sports!!!

[Laocoön]

Originally Posted by B-ham 34

Please read his 3rd paragragh, where he state comparison to other major cities isn't even fair, as to say B-ham is small!!!

I said that the naysayers -- the defenders of Birmingham, the eternal Birmingham apologists such as cpg -- might attempt to discredit my arguments with the notion that you can't compare Birmingham and its infrastructure to the likes of Atlanta, Chicago, and San Francisco which have good infrastructures because Birmingham, though a fairly large city (1.1 million), is certainly not an Atlanta, and any comparison wouldn't be apples to apples. You can define "big" city however you want to, B-ham 34, but you missed my point. Just for the record, the Birmingham metro ranks #47 in the U.S.

[B-ham 34]

Originally Posted by Laocoön

I said that the naysayers -- the defenders of Birmingham, the eternal Birmingham apologists such as cpg -- might attempt to discredit my arguments with the notion that you can't compare Birmingham and its infrastructure to the likes of Atlanta, Chicago, and San Francisco who have great infrastructures because Birmingham, though a fairly large city (1.3 million), is certainly not an Atlanta, and any comparison wouldn't be apples to apples. You can define "big" city however you want to, B-ham 34, but you missed my point.

True i agree!!!

[B-ham 34]

Originally Posted by Laocoön

I said that the naysayers -- the defenders of Birmingham, the eternal Birmingham apologists such as cpg -- might attempt to discredit my arguments with the notion that you can't compare Birmingham and its infrastructure to the likes of Atlanta, Chicago, and San Francisco who have great infrastructures because Birmingham, though a fairly large city (1.1 million), is certainly not an Atlanta, and any comparison wouldn't be apples to apples. You can define "big" city however you want to, B-ham 34, but you missed my point. Just for the record, the Birmingham metro ranks #47 in the U.S.

Okay who stats are those are they USA TODAY!!! Listen i saw those rankings and also saw Hartford metro rank #45 with Willimantic included as a metro area of Hartford, please don't believe everything you read i live in Hartford and Willimantic is so far away from here it's impossible to be in this metro area maybe New London, Ct metro area not Hartford!!! Get me that's like saying Huntsville is part of Bham metro!!! Those stats are wrong!!!Research

[Laocoön]

Originally Posted by B-ham 34

Okay who stats are those are they USA TODAY!!! Listen i saw those rankings and also saw Hartford metro rank #45 with Willimantic included as a metro area of Hartford, please don't believe everything you read i live in Hartford and Willimantic is so far away from here it's impossible to be in this metro area maybe New London, Ct metro area not Hartford!!! Get me that's like saying Huntsville is part of Bham metro!!! Those stats are wrong!!!Research

This argument about the size of Birmingham is beginning to distract from the topic of light rail. I will say these last words on the subject:

Birmingham's population without considering Hoover and the surrounding 'burbs is 229,000 and ranks #83 in the U.S. These statistics are the consensus. There is no study which incorporates Huntsville, or even Tuscaloosa, into the Birmingham metro population. Enough said about that.

Look, you seem to perceive Birmingham to be this gigantic city because of how broad it is, how large of a swath of land it is, and how much time it takes you to drive across it. I can understand that. It sure seems that way when you're driving across it.

But this is so because Birmingham is sprawled out and spread out. It is not a dense area. Many people have a huge yard, and there is no efficient grid of streets. Even the "bad neighborhoods" and ghettos comprise mostly houses with yards, a characteristic almost unique to Birmingham. In most major cities a bad neighborhood means high-rise housing, complexes of apartment-style quarters, or houses-touching-houses. In Birmingham everything is scattered about and there are buffer zones of land and forests between nearly every edifice or home except for the small downtown section. There are also many, many abandoned buildings and homes in the inner city because as soon as people get the means to move out, they do.

This was all PRECISELY to my original point about Birmingham being a sprawling hell caused by the vehicular culture and hatred of shared spaces (and to say otherwise is to deny the reality or to say that the people are acting and have created a city counter to their intent).

[B-ham 34]

Originally Posted by Laocoön

This argument about the size of Birmingham is beginning to distract form the topic. I will say these last words on the subject:

Birmingham's population without considering Hoover and the surrounding 'burbs is 229,000 and ranks #83 in the U.S. These statistics are the consensus. There is no study which incorporates Huntsville, or even Tuscaloosa, into the Birmingham metro population. Enough said about that.

Look, you seem to perceive Birmingham to be this gigantic city because of how broad it is, how large of a swath of land it is, and how much time it takes you to drive across it. I can understand that. It sure seems that way when you're driving across it.

But this is so because Birmingham is sprawled out and spread out. It is not a dense area. Many people have a huge yard, and there is no efficient grid of streets. Even the "bad neighborhoods" and ghettos comprise mostly houses with yards, a characteristic almost unique to Birmingham. In most major cities a bad neighborhood means high-rise housing, complexes of apartment-style quarters, or houses-touching-houses. In Birmingham everything is scattered about and there are buffer zones of land and forests between nearly every edifice or home except for the small downtown section. There are also many, many abandoned buildings and homes in the inner city because as soon as people get the means to move out, they do.

This was all PRECISELY to my original point about Birmingham being a sprawling hell caused by the vehicular culture and hatred of shared spaces (and to say otherwise is to deny the reality or to say that the people are acting and have created a city counter to their intent).

Very well!! I agree it is a sprawl, and my reasons come from driving around metro Birmingham and various cities in this nation from Cleveland, Ohio (which is amazing in size) to Orlando which is medium in size to the likes of NYC!!! Yes we know Bham isn't Atlanta, but i'm proud of what we have compared to a lot of other cities!!! I live in Hartford,CT and truthfully it's embarrashing how small the metro area is, large to some but small to me!!
OMG i almost forgot to include the fact that censuses aren't facts, they are estimates so we're estimated at 229,000!!! Because about 50,000 workers, out of state residents, bums on street corners, crack heads and prostitutes aren't filling out census forms!!

[dmagoku]

Originally Posted by Laocoön

It's sad, and maddening, that Birminghamians won't face up to their vehicular affliction. They could get help if they would only identify the problem. But they won't. This recession has proved it. I've seen people lose their homes and be evicted from their apartments before they will let go of their cars. I even overheard one Mountain Brook father consult his son, who was in financial straits and only had the funds to save his car from repossession or his butt from eviction, "If I had to choose between making the car payment or paying the rent, I'd choose to make the car payment." I know of another situation where a man in financial straits was advised by another, "Hey, as long as you have wheels, you'll be okay. That's priority number one. No wheels, no job, and no life."

Well seeing as how you can't really get around without a car and you can sleep out of a car it makes more sense to handle car payment over home. You can always find a place to sleep but getting a ride is a little tougher.

[B-ham 34]

Originally Posted by dmagoku

Well seeing as how you can't really get around without a car and you can sleep out of a car it makes more sense to handle car payment over home. You can always find a place to sleep but getting a ride is a little tougher.

Very true, very true!!!Lol