Boise - just returned -UNBELIEVABLE (Sandpoint: gay, places, Mormons)

[California Carl]

I agree with a lot of what you've said Anchor. I'll definately register to vote ASAP and pay attention to what is going on so I can vote intelligently.
I think it would be better to develop south of 84, it seems like they are?
People are driving pretty agressively here, it seems like back home. I wish I could have a job that allowed me to ride a bike to work, but I don't. I'll have to be patient and add a little time to get from point A to point B.
Ada Count should be passing on costs to developers to pay for roads, schools, etc. as they approve projects. This will make things more tollerable as the growth continues. Are they doing that?
TTFN,
C.C.

[Anchorless]

Originally Posted by California Carl

I agree with a lot of what you've said Anchor. I'll definately register to vote ASAP and pay attention to what is going on so I can vote intelligently.
I think it would be better to develop south of 84, it seems like they are?
People are driving pretty agressively here, it seems like back home. I wish I could have a job that allowed me to ride a bike to work, but I don't. I'll have to be patient and add a little time to get from point A to point B.
Ada Count should be passing on costs to developers to pay for roads, schools, etc. as they approve projects. This will make things more tollerable as the growth continues. Are they doing that?
TTFN,
C.C.

Thanks for registering!

Development is everywhere. They're planning on adding another 20,000 homes in the foothills north of Eagle, and some 15 planned communities are planned in the near future, most of them in the foothills north of Boise and Eagle (and one on Hammer Flats clear over by Lucky Peak reservoir).

I think that Beiter wants most of the development to go south, but it's hard to fight developers with limitless pockets, real estate speculators and agents that are frothing at the mouth at the chance to sell some of these properties, and the various government agencies that will make bank on the infrastructure (that is partially funded by the developers, but mostly by tax payers).

People here tend to be angry drivers for a variety of reasons. The commute times have increased and gotten more difficult, which annoys people. Also Boise has this weird mix of slow-paced, back road style drivers that like to take their time and hold up traffic, and manic, speed demon types that are always trying to get around them. It's a mess; I don't ever like driving around the busy parts of the city. Thankfully I live close enough to the Greenbelt and to downtown that I can mostly avoid all of that. But it isn't getting better anytime soon.

Expect in the very near future:
-increased congestion on the main north/south east/west thoroughfares, especially as construction increases.
-increased cost of parking, especially downtown (probably a removal of the free 20 minute parking buttons).
-continuously increasing property taxes, incommensurate with wage increases.

Just remember to tread lightly and let your voice be heard.

[Sage of Sagle]

Guys, remember to keep the politics out to the greatest extent possible (or make your person-to-person contact via PM)

[Xa'at]

I'll admit I didn't read this entire thread... at about page five I got bored and wanted to share my opinion.
The title drew my attention... I honestly never considered "Boise" and "Unbelievable" could be used in the same sentence. Boise is a nice town, it's big, there's a lot of stuff available to it's residents that aren't available to us northerners, it's got nice dining, a nice university, on and on. It's nice. Unbelievable? I think not.
Another admittance (they just keep coming!): I don't live in Boise. I've visited a few times, and as I said before, I like it. I'd go back to see it, because I love Julia Davis Park, and the zoo is fun. As I'm sure you know already from looking at my tag, I live in Alaska, perhaps a far cry from Idaho, you say? Not really. I have family in Sandpoint, and I spend a lot of time there. I know Idaho just as well as I know Alaska.
Here's what I think: if you like a rather conservative atmosphere, a perhaps slightly above state average education, and a town that is in the middle of the desert with few real bodies of water and even fewer trees, than by all means move to Boise. As I said before, it does have quite a few redeeming qualities. I'm sure the people are real nice.
However, if you are expecting actual rugged beauty, a real ski resort, a more liberal (now when I say liberal I don't mean people on the street corner smoking dope, I mean people who actually care about the rights of others, free speech, etc) environment, you can't beat the North.

If you are easily offended, skip this part. Remember, it's my opinion, not necessarily the truth (although obviously I think it is or it wouldn't be my opinion, right?)
Okay, my actual opinion, not all sugared over so as I don't offend anyone. Boise is ugly. It is really ugly. It looks like someone picked a random spot in the middle of a treeless desert and dropped and entire city down on it, then tried to cover it up by making a "green belt".
Okay, you can stop skipping now. Period of absolute honesty has ended.

Admittedly, I'm scenicly spoiled. Both Juneau and Sandpoint (which are really just the same city with slightly different latitudes) are incredibly beautiful. Surrounded by lakes/the ocean, more trees than a group of loggers the size of the current US army contingent in the middle east could cut down in several lifetimes, and mountains everywhere.
May I suggest you visit one of them before you blindly move to Boise? Try Sandpoint first, it's the less hardcore of the two.

[LVGAZ]

Xa'at
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder - actually used to come from the great NW on the Canadian border and yes, it is beautiful BUT it is cold - and Boise has its qualities -
where in the desert do you see green? ( live in Phoenix for awhile - brown becomes old fast)
where do you see water in the desert? - the river is great
where do you see culture so nicely packages as in Boise - the development areas of downtown, hyde park, j davis park, zoo, university, arts
where in the city of size can you take a meandering bike ride and enjoy the "green belt"?
where in a city can you drive less than hour and get in some good skiing?
where in a city can you travel within 4-5 hours and be on the coast or be in SAndpoint, CD, Montana, WY? for all the outdoors you need and scenic beauty?
Boise may not be the 'beauty' you see - but some do and this is all without the harsh winters, bad weather conditions, and great wineries... and did I mention affordable.... fun, family oriented
Been to Boise...love it... can't wait to get there...

[Syringaloid]

<Personal comment deleted>. There are many, many cities in the Western US that are in desert areas, but the high desert, the Columbia Plateau that covers southwest Idaho, much of eastern Oregon and Washington is a more lush and vegetated desert than the Southwest for instance. Plus Boise is at the doorstep to some lush forest and wilderness areas. So, I would not say Boise is in the middle of the desert. Boise is surrounded by some pretty amazing agricultural areas and is one of the most diverse and plentiful ag areas left in the Western US. The Boise River comes right out of the mountains and has always had natural forested areas of decidous trees along its banks. The mountains above Boise have visible forests.
I always am amused at people who live in areas where there are evergreens all year because what are they going to do when global warming dries up their precious forested cities and/or bark beetles and fire devastate their landscape?

I love Sandpoint, I really do, but it is kind of in the middle of nowhere in my opinion. I almost moved to that area but did not want a city like Spokane to be my urban center, and then I discovered Boise and fell in love.
Boise is in the middle of everywhere and is a very pretty green manicured city in the trees and has one of the most beautiful river greenbelts and city parks I have encountered in any city. There are areas of Boise along the river and streams (right in the city) where you can get lost in the trees and foilage. Oh, and the sunsets melt you heart too. That is one of the great aspects of living in a city where two ecosystem meet--the desert and forests.
Take it easy up there in --cough--Alaska, Xa'at. I don't envy you at all.

[ASPEN1USA]

"People here tend to be angry drivers for a variety of reasons. The commute times have increased and gotten more difficult, which annoys people. Also Boise has this weird mix of slow-paced, back road style drivers that like to take their time and hold up traffic, and manic, speed demon types that are always trying to get around them."


There is nothing more aggravating than a fool who parks his or her simple-minded backside in the fast lane on the freeway holding up traffic while they mumble to themselves, "I'm doing the speed limit!"

[brendabie]

I moved to Boise 11 years ago after living in Seattle for 10 years--talk about a culture shock! I felt like I'd entered the "land of upside down!" I have found a pocket of liberal friends, and have made friends with folks as conservative as southern californians.

I have very mixed feelings myself about Boise. I have a great group of friends now, some of whom are from here, and some of whom are transplants like myself. I think that people's openness to new people depends somewhat on what life stage they are in--single, with kids, empty nesters, etc. When I first moved here, I met people through work and going out to clubs, and such, but overall, it seemed that people have their friends and their lives and weren't really interested in meeting new people.
I'm sort of all over the place here in topics, but I want to clarify a couple points that Pippi333 mentioned. The first is the about the high school rankings--I think what she was referring to was a ranking of the top 1200 high schools in the country that Newsweek published earlier this year--Boise High ranked 518, and Timberline ranked 1097. The other thing she said was that there aren't any amusement parks. Perhaps someone who has been there could give their opinion about Lagoon, over in Farmington UT. It's about a 4 1/2 hour drive from Boise, not next door, but certainly not a 2-day drive. My daughter's too young for me to make a trip over there yet.

My daughter is a toddler, so we have no experience with the public schools yet. Anecdotely, I have heard from other friends the LDS prejudice with their kids at school, especially out in the west end, but not experienced it myself with LDS friends. I also spoke to a woman who's daughter went to Bishop Kelly (they had moved here from CA too), and she hated it--it was conservative and clichey, and she was a little too 'free spirited' for the kids there. She transferred to public school, Boise High, and fit in much better.

I have reservations about raising my daughter here--I am white, she is black, and I'm not so sure I want her to grow with so few same-race role models. Seattle was so diverse, it was really noticable how few people of different ethnicities lived around here when I first moved here. Sometimes I wish I hadn't sold my house--I sold it for $175K in 1998 or so, and last year it sold for $450K!!! UGH! I could never afford to buy a home there again, unless I get a big promotion.

I see alot of the growth and development issues here and on the horizon that remind me of what we experienced where I grew up So. California (60 miles no. of L.A.) But to me the anti-government spirit of this area is biting people in the ass, so to speak, as the zoning and development laws are allowing this unfettered growth. And, with so many people getting into ATVS and other motorized off-road vehicle recreation (since 1985, registration of ATVs in Idaho went from about 1500 to over 100,000 in 2005), many great places out in the deserts and in the mountains are getting destroyed cause people have an attitude they don't need to stay on roads, they can go wherever they want.

Boise has a great mayor. The greenbelt is great. Boise has many wonderful little neighborhood parks. Being close to mountains for hiking and rivers for boating is fantastic.

In my opinion, the summers are too hot, though and the winters too cold. Spring and fall are too short.

I have found people to be unfriendly in some grocery stores, friendly in others. I think it depends on what time of day, and my own mood. I can see mean-spiritedness in the best of people when I'm looking for it. But I have sometimes gotten a bad vibe at the Winco on Fairview, and I've shopped there in many different moods. Not from clerks, but from other patrons. But maybe everyone is just tired and ready to get home by the time they've navigated through such a huge and ugly (though reasonably priced) store.

[IDnative]

Originally Posted by Pippi333

Not to discourage anyone, but I thought I'd give another perspective.

My husband, 4 children and I moved to Boise 2 years ago. I will be very honest and say that there are many things about the area that I really like very much.

Having been born and raised in a coastal community about 90 miles North of Los Angeles, eventually living in the L.A. area for work, Boise has been really great in several ways. One, crime is a lot lower. Two, most of the city is quite clean. Three, the river is awesome, and the Green Belt is one of my family's favorite places in the entire city. Also, we have had pretty good experiences with the schools. On the one hand, one of my children was lucky enough to get THE best teacher that any of my children have ever had, but on the other hand, two of my other children have had teachers that were almost the worst teachers any of my children have ever had.

Now, here's what seems negative, from an "outsiders" point of view. Now I know, most people in the entire country are not exactly in love with Californians in general. Every state kind of has their own "breed" of people, but that is true of Idaho, as well. Some people have been friendly and nice here, but our experience has been that most are quite snooty and rude. Whereas in a place like California, people often say hi as they walk in and out of stores, pass in a parking lot, etc., that has not been our experience here at all. Even when you say hi first, or smile, often you will just get a blank stare, or even a dirty look. So, that's kind of annoying.

Another thing that those coming in from other states, particularly more progressive states such as California will likely notice, is that it is TREMENDOUSLY conservative here. You get the feeling that most would just as soon hang a black person from a tree or drop a gay person into the river tied to cement blocks as they would look at you. People here actually still use the word "n*gg*r". Far from progressive, I'd say. Now, I'm not black, or gay, so it's not just that I'm being overly sensitive. And that's not to say that we don't actually have a black neighbor or two, but it doesn't appear as though they are likely treated all that warmly.

Most Californians would agree that many from California are sharp, quick witted, cynical. Hey, we're from a fast paced environment, and we've adapted. The true is not same here in Boise. Most people are educated, but not necessarily all that sharp. My personal experience has been that the majority of senses of humor are very dry (or nonexistent), the community in general is quite "clique-ish", and the way people drive here will probably have you pulling out tufts of hair in no time.

And then there's the whole "backwoods" population. Now, as I said, most people here come across as educated. However, there are quite a lot of people who remind you of backwoods, hillbillie types....kids totally unattended and running around like goats, the whole "missing-teeth-refusal-to-wear-deodorant" types. You know what I'm saying. These appear to be individuals who came from farming areas throughout Idaho and still think they are on the farm.

If you are at ALL of a liberal frame of mind, even mildly so, Boise will likely not be a good fit. In fact, you may find it to be your own personal "conservative hell".

Another thing I have really noticed, is that you don't run into many "gentlemen". In fact, I think I've come across, one. My entire life, even when walking into a mini-mart or whatever, if there was a door to be opened and a guy around, that guy would even jog up ahead of you to open the door for you. Not because they are creepy, but just because it's the norm. Not here. I've actually had a guy stand there waiting for ME to open the door for HIM! More than once!!

It seems to me, that women in general are not regarded very highly here. My impression (and I admit, I could be wrong, but this has been my perception...) is that there are not many "power women" here...you know, the types that run corporations or are very strong-minded. Several of the women I've spoken with did not seem to "have a mind of their own".

People seem very spoiled here. Not everybody I've come across, some have been really great. Most seem highly materialistic and superficial, though. Everybody complains about Californians being that way, but I've run into much more of it here than I ever did there.

The best analogy that I can produce, is that it is quite "Stepford-wives-ish" here. It's either the Stepford Wives types, or the Clampett's. A few genuine and down to earth people thrown into the mix, but not many.

Also, and don't let anybody tell you different, you will notice that you are treated differently if you are not LDS. Worse, your children will be treated differently. My son was actually told at school, when he ran up to a kid to ask if he wanted to be friends, "No, you are not the right kind of kid to be friends with". WHAT?!! My son is kind, gentle, respectful, clean, well-mannered, and loving. But he's not LDS, and it's clear that some of the parents at the school do not want to socialize with those who are not LDS, and apparently, that goes for their children, too. That was really hurtful, and I had no idea how to explain that to my son, except to teach him the difference between being close-minded and open-minded.

It's very yuppie, so if that's not your cup of tea, keep that in mind. It's a LOT like California in the 80's. Women are perfectly manicured and drive their suburbans, men wear pink polo shirts...that sort of thing.

It's also tough to find good food here. Definitely tough to find good Mexican food. In fact, we've only found one place so far that is pretty good, but still nothing like the fantastic Mexican food you can get in SoCal. There are a couple of good pizza places. I usually love Marie Callendar's but the food from the one here is horrendously salty, as is the case with just about every restaurant we've been to here.

Crime is low, but not super low. There's a huge drug scene here, my high school aged child has been so shocked by the huge drug scene in the schools (when we got here she was in Jr. High). We had problems with excessive drug issues with the teens next door. There's also measurable violent crime. For instance, a little girl across the way was the victim of an attempted rape and likely would-be homicide at the hands of her friend's father. There have already been several murders since we moved here. There are a lot of registered sex offenders.

Teens are just as rude, disrespectful, and problematic here as they are anywhere.

It may be "The city of the trees", but it's basically just a green spot in the middle of the desert. Don't get me wrong, I adore the river, and love all the trees in the area, but you just get outside city limits, and you are totally in the miserable desert again.

There issue of illegal immigrants is not nearly as prevalent as in California, Arizona, or many other parts of the country. However, it does exist, and seems to increase by the week.

Some other things to keep in mind...there are NO amusement parks less than like 9 hours away, and that one is just a dinky little one up North that charges way too much to get in and has really limited hours of operation (although it IS now home of the original "Corkscrew" rollercoaster that used to reside at Knott's Berry Farm). If you like Six Flags or Disneyland, you'll have to drive 2 days to get to one.

The county fair is a pretty good one, albeit small. We enjoy it, though.

The city, surprisingly, doesn't do anything really good for the 4th of July. The fireworks are a total disappointment, very small (and short) display in a crummy part of town. It gets so smoky so fast, that you can't see anything anyway, and then it's heck trying to drive away, due to all of the smoke.

For those with kids, the Chuck E. Cheese here is old and tiny. There's another "fun center" called Pojo's, but it's kind of grimey, some of the people who work there are REALLY rude, and the games are ancient.

The mall is really nice, lots of good stores. They just got a Cheesecake Factory. Also, there's a Thomas Kinkade gallery there.

We've had to use the hospital ER twice since moving here, and both times, our experience was very good. Medical services seem above average here.

Summer is likely hotter than you'd expect, over 100 several days, or even weeks. I think the coldest temp. we've experienced since moving here was somewhere around 3 degrees. Winter lasts a really long time. Fall is pretty. Clean, nice neighborhoods to take your kids trick-or-treating in.

Easter hasn't seemed like Easter for us...since the weather isn't warm and clear for outdoor egg hunts and that sort of thing. Our first Easter here, it snowed.

Well, that's the best I can do in terms of trying to give a prospective new resident the low-down. No reason to avoid the place, as long as you can deal with thier terms. It's so funny (but not)...my whole life, every time I or anyone I was in the presence of, learned that an individual was from somewhere other than California, we'd be like, "Oh, really? That's so cool, what's it like there? What brings you here?", etc. Californians in general, welcome outsiders from other states. Any other state I've lived in (AZ, MI, TX, ID), they are, in general, SO intolerable and hateful towards Californians, it's just ridiculous. Very offensive, too.

Personally, I can't see myself spending my whole life here. I don't want my daughters ending up with men who think women are lower on the food chain, in such a generally intolerant community. I'm also not thrilled about the notion of acclamating to a community that is generally highly accepting in the practice of murdering animals for sport.

But hey, that's just me.

I felt like the Geico caveman after reading this thread: Eh---what?

I do not intend to attack you personally, but I believe your observations are completely anecdotal and are not backed up by the facts. Here is an example of anecdotal evidence.

A black man arrives on a plane in Boise. He is greeted by a rude taxi driver that calls the person who cuts him off in traffic a "n--gger." The man arrives at the home he purchased on-line and finds out his neighbor is a drug user. He sends his kids to school and they have issues with one of their teachers. He drives (never leaving the city limits), looking for the forest he was told was in Idaho, and never finds it. Now frustrated and angry, he goes shopping and can't figure out why the clerks aren't overly friendly toward him. He searches, but has trouble finding liberal friends like he left in California. The LDS especially seem to keep their distance. He gives up and returns back to California, angry and disappointed. Here is what he reports back to his friends and family:

Idaho is full of racist people, drugs are out of control, the schools are terrible, there is nothing but desert, most people are rude, and the LDS are a bunch of bigots.

This is called anecdotal evidence and it means that she took her own (isolated) personal experiences and used it to make blanket statements that are not backed up by fact.

I will not tell you that Boise is a Garden of Eden, but it is not like Pippi333 describes either.

Pippi is the first person I have ever heard say that Idahoans are snooty or rude and that Californians are friendlier. I have lived in Idaho 38 years and that is a new one for me. In fact, the California transplants that I talk to generally say just the opposite. They can't get over how people actually talk to you and make eye contact. It really makes me wonder if Pippi's comments are genuine.

Pippi tries to equate conservatism with racisism. You can ask 10 different people to define conservatism and you might get 10 different answers. The definition that I believe is fairly accurate of most Idahoans is the one I pulled from Wikipedia: Cultural conservatism is a philosophy that supports preservation of the heritage of a nation or culture. It also defines fiscal conservatism: Fiscal conservatism is the economic philosophy of prudence in government spending and debt. In a nutshell, Idahoans want to preserve their culture and they want smaller government. This does not make them racist! It is interesting how some people will try to take the word conservative and twist it into something bad. What is their agenda?

BTW in my racist Idaho family, my daughter and sister-in-law are Chinese, one brother-in-law is Korean and another is an Iraqi. My best friend is Brittish and his wife is Mexican. Then again, this is just as anecdotal as Pippi. The state as a whole is far from this diverse, but it is not racist either.

I find it ironic that a lot people move to Idaho to escape life in the big cities then once they are here, they complain about not having big city features. Californians are not always well received here because there are enough of them that come here and try to impose their liberal and/or big city views on us.

Idahoans like a slower pace of life, they don't like a lot of government regulation, and there are some things that just aren't tolerated here. The organization NAMBLA comes to mind.

When Idahoans see the traffic become as bad as the big cities, increased government regulations, increased crime, and people who want them to tolerate anything and everything, they get resentful. There are plenty of residents from other states, but there are more new residents from California than from any other state, so the natives blame them for the problems that are mostly associated with simple growth.

I found it interesting that you criticized Idahoans for NOT being cynical. The last I checked, being called a cynic was not a complement!

You complain about the drivers, but from their perspective, YOU are the problem. They were here first and you came in droves to escape the big city, then once you were here, you complained that people didn't drive like they do in the big cities. I find that irrational.

You demean the character and intelligence of Idahoans. Do you think that Micron's world headquarters or Hewlett Packard's Laserjet division is there because of the large pool of highly UNeducated, UNintelligent people? If you can't tell, I am being sarcastic. Yes, Idahoans are capable of sarcasm!

You say "you just get outside the city limits and you are totally in the miserable desert again." I suggest you get out a map or just point your car north and start driving. There are dense forests less than a 15 minute drive from Boise. In fact, the desert of S.W. Idaho represents a small fraction of the state's geography and Idaho has more Wilderness area than any other state except Alaska. Look at google earth and see for yourself.

I won't even touch the remark about the men wearing pink Polo shirts.

Our state does have it's share of "Backwoods" people, but my trips through rural California tells me our state doesn't have the market cornered.

You only have to drive 4-1/2 hours to get to a sizable amusement park near Salt Lake City which is probably how long you would be driving from most places that aren't right near Anaheim thanks to your traffic.

You indicated that the fireworks display was crummy. If it was so crummy, what do you think created all of the smoke?

As far as the weather goes, snow on Easter is about as common as snow on Christmas in L.A. It does get hot here in the summer, but not as hot as Phoenix or Vegas or a lot of other places. Go to any of the weather websites and you can see averages for Boise and other Idaho cities. If you don't like summer temperatures in the 90's you might want to consider north Idaho or Eastern Idaho though. Climate varies considerably from one part of the state to the next but, because of our Latitude, every place you go will have 4 seasons. There will be heat in the summer and snow in the winter. It is just a question of how much and for how long.

Also, because of our latitude, summer days are long and winter days are short. Some people like this and others don't. It is just a matter of personal preference.

I would have to agree with Pippi on one thing: If you are a very liberal person, you probably won't feel welcome here, especially by the mormons. They are very socially conservative people who believe in high moral standards. Things like sex out of wedlock , gay marriage, pornography, alcohol and other vices are unacceptable to them. Calling them, or most Idahoans for that matter, "conservative" is a complement, not an insult.

Most people move here for the conservative values. They are tired of the smut and anything goes attitude that you find across most of the country. For one thing, you won't find a porn industry here. I guess that technically makes us bigots since we are intolerant of it, but so be it.

The fact that liberal people come to Boise and complain about conservatives is as absurd as a conservative going to San Francisco and complaining about liberals. The great thing about America is that we all have choices of what to think and where to live.

[irvm]

Originally Posted by Pippi333

I'm also not thrilled about the notion of acclamating to a community that is generally highly accepting in the practice of murdering animals for sport.
But hey, that's just me.

What I've quoted above is all you really had to say.
Because of this prejudice, you probably had no intention of trying to 'fit in'.
Instead you spent your time looking for anything which wasn't exactly like what you left behind in PC land.
And that, it seems, is pretty common behavior. One which doesn't endear you to the local population, I'd guess.

On the other hand, I do in a way understand where you're coming from.
I'm always highly upset when people kill defenseless plants, just to boil the poor things (alive!) and eat them. Plants can't even call for help or run away.

Disgusting!

Murdering defenseless vegetables should be illegal.