Idahfornia (Boise, Eagle, Weiser: 2009, maintenance, sales tax)

[stingraynm]

Originally Posted by norcalmom101

I was a kid when prop 13 passed. No more rec centers at the parks, that is what I remember, my place to go after school gone overnight. Illegal immigrants had nothing to do with that.

That's unconscionable. Anyone who gets annoyed by juvenile delinquency should love rec centers, and I think that annoyance is as unanimous in our society as juveniles' unanimity in unrequited urges and "boredom".

In any case, rec centers shouldn't require funding from the school's allocation of the budgets. That Health and Welfare couldn't step in is just ludicrous. Even sadder is that the action was probably done with such bitter haste that not even philanthropists had an opportunity to weigh in. I can see why schools would justifiably put rec centers as a low priority, but if the act was done in haste, that's the unconscionable part. They put the statement to be made ahead of the principle of why rec centers exist. For shame!

[DESERTRYDER]

Originally Posted by norcalmom101

I was a kid when prop 13 passed. No more rec centers at the parks, that is what I remember, my place to go after school gone overnight. Illegal immigrants had nothing to do with that.

I was a new home owner when prop 13 passed.
I was happy I could anticipate my property tax amount each year.
If it hadn't passed I might not have been able to keep my home.
Illegal immigrants had to do with eveything.
They had to take the money from the fun stuff " Rec Centers" and pay for more schools, medical aid , welfare and such.

Because of prop 13 they can't raise the property tax anytime they want so they get you another way.
That's why it cost 500 bucks a year for a license plate on a car in California.

[boi2socal]

Well, if prop 13 did not exist one could assume that more people would be losing their homes. Then again maybe if it didn't exist home prices in California would have never inflated like they did.

[j760]

And the whining and stereotypes continue.

[stingraynm]

Originally Posted by j760

And the whining and stereotypes continue.

I usually ignore these generic comments that seem to call someone out without any specific references or counterpoints, but you've got too much rep to be the kind of thing I ignore. Genuinely curious, what constitutes the whining and stereotypes you're referencing?

[AndyV]

Originally Posted by j760

And the whining and stereotypes continue.

People will invariably hear what they're listening for ~ be it whining or contemplative responses.

[stingraynm]

Originally Posted by AndyV

People will invariably hear what they're listening for ~ be it whining or contemplative responses.

Yeah... good point. Usually the lack of a contemplative counterpoint with those sort of critiques speaks volumes, too. Reason and ideology are innately conflicted, and reason best not waste its time convincing those who do nothing more than vote anyway.

[Jarndyce]

Originally Posted by DESERTRYDER

I was a new home owner when prop 13 passed.
I was happy I could anticipate my property tax amount each year.
If it hadn't passed I might not have been able to keep my home.
Illegal immigrants had to do with eveything.
They had to take the money from the fun stuff " Rec Centers" and pay for more schools, medical aid , welfare and such.

Because of prop 13 they can't raise the property tax anytime they want so they get you another way.
That's why it cost 500 bucks a year for a license plate on a car in California.

"Illegal Immigration" is a separate issue and it has nothing to do with Prop 13. California "grew" in the 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, because Midwesterners moved to escape harsh winters and search out "the free spirit california lifestyle." There were manufacturing jobs all over Southern California. There was a Florida-esque citrus industry in Los Angeles. When this population aged and retired, they voted in Prop 13 to protect their home ownership in a form of rent-control type scheme. This demographic may have prevented the "natural market forces" from deciding home values, home values may not have risen dramatically either, but they doomed the "progress" of California, ultimately.

Prop 13 has to be overturned for California to return to greatness. California has a revenue problem, as the Governorator admitted recently.

Immigration is a separate issue. Businesses hire migrant workers because they don't want to pay fair wages to American workers. Wealthy, lazy Californians have McMansions which they don't want to clean or landscape.

Immigration can be "managed" through a variety of means. Most of the management must be pointed at Businesses and not simply building some stupid fence.

If we feel like we must manage the Mexican migrant worker, then we better manage the foreign college student and the foreign tech worker too. Otherwise our country will be merely shifting a racist gaze in one direction, away from another.

[stingraynm]

Originally Posted by Jarndyce

"Illegal Immigration" is a separate issue and it has nothing to do with Prop 13. California "grew" in the 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, because Midwesterners moved to escape harsh winters and search out "the free spirit california lifestyle." There were manufacturing jobs all over Southern California. There was a Florida-esque citrus industry in Los Angeles. When this population aged and retired, they voted in Prop 13 to protect their home ownership in a form of rent-control type scheme. This demographic may have prevented the "natural market forces" from deciding home values, home values may not have risen dramatically either, but they doomed the "progress" of California, ultimately.

Prop 13 has to be overturned for California to return to greatness. California has a revenue problem, as the Governorator admitted recently.

Immigration is a separate issue. Businesses hire migrant workers because they don't want to pay fair wages to American workers. Wealthy, lazy Californians have McMansions which they don't want to clean or landscape.

Immigration can be "managed" through a variety of means. Most of the management must be pointed at Businesses and not simply building some stupid fence.

If we feel like we must manage the Mexican migrant worker, then we better manage the foreign college student and the foreign tech worker too. Otherwise our country will be merely shifting a racist gaze in one direction, away from another.

I agree with your overall point that we should target the businesses that make illegal immigration work in the first place, but I have to disagree with targeting academic and technically employed immigrants. I work with a lot of immigrants in IT and engineering, and our country does itself a big favor by making their visas as barrier-free as possible.

Ultimately, we should make citizenship easier for everyone because not only does that allow them to share the tax burden and become accountable in our legal system (reference auto insurance for a glaring example), but it also eliminates the portion of the economy that can be exploited at society's and each immigrant's expense. If immigrants can demand decent earnings and conditions, that helps all the people who are currently hurt by illegal immigration.

Finally, we need to focus on the fact that many businesses outsource. I'm all for a free market, but the unemployment products and currency distribution on the world money market are exacerbating our economic troubles. It is time that the government adapt its oversight to the issues at hand. Although we have different takes, I think we agree on the fact that our focus is on the wrong portion of the problem. One could say we're frying ants with a magnifying glass while termites devour our home. Those ants are just so much more visible, and even our means of stopping them is ridiculously inefficient.

[kimbercutes824]

Originally Posted by scoobs

Boise doesn't have that many jobs? What are all of these Californians doing for work?

Being movie stars and socialites. LOL!