Idahfornia (Shoshone, Hope: schools, living in, price)

[burdell]

Originally Posted by StampinTami

We looked in the Lewsiton area and the % of LDS in that area is very low. Actually the % of religious is also low at only 39%. The Eastern side of Idaho has a very high % of LDS in general. Good luck with finding where you want to be.

Being unfamiliar with LDS thinking I thought this might be a good place to ask.

What is the LDS view of other religions?

Are practicioners of other religins considered heathen, heretics, unenlightened and are LDS folks encouraged to tolerate others? Comvert them? Embrace them as fellow humans?

I'm really curious about the LDS point of view.

[cleosmom]

Okay from a non-LDS point of view; I feel that some, not all, feel that their views on their beliefs are the only true and correct ones and that those who do not share their beliefs will be doomed.

I have plenty more to say, but won't as that's all that was asked.

Having said that, do I have some friends who are LDS? Yes. We're adults and can simply agree to disagree.

[RCL]

Originally Posted by burdell

What is the LDS view of other religions?

Burdell, have a look at some of the threads in Utah and perhaps Idaho. Even I've added to them.

According to LDS published material, Joseph Smith was a young man trying to figure out which church to join (ie: Presbyterian, Methodist, Lutheran, etc.). Smith says that he went off into the forest to ask God which church to join and while he was praying he saw God and Jesus appear to him in the flesh and they told him that none of the churches was true and that he would receive instructions at a later date about a new church that he was to establish.

Then, Smith claims that after a certain period of time, an angel named Moroni appeared to him and showed him a stone box buried underground that contained golden plates with heiroglyphs on them. That supposedly was the book of mormon.

What's interesting is that Joseph Smith had no formal education, but somehow managed to "translate" these plates all by himself into "King James" style English. The Mormons also believe that the Book of Mormon is accurate, but they openly doubt the credibility/accuracy of the Bible (LDS Articles of Faith, #8).

It's a bit different than sectarianism within the body of Christ where you have basic fundamental tenets that all denominations are in agreement with, with some differences of opinion on certain passages (ie: rapture/no rapture, tongues/no tongues, etc.).

The Mormons believe that the book of Mormon is "another testament of Jesus Christ", a supposed account of Jesus' alleged appearance to ancient civilizations here in North America after leaving the apostles after the resurrection.

In actuality, the book of Mormon is simply "another gospel" of "another Jesus" which the apostle Paul adamantly warned about.

When you read it it's easy to see that it's a combination of plagiarism of the bible (even written in King James English no less) mixed in with some fanciful story-telling on the part of Smith and his accomplices. To this date, there are no archaeologists who have substantiated any of the claims about where these cities/civilizations mentioned in the book of Mormon supposedly were. Not a single ruin or remnant has been found. On the other hand, even archaeologists who are not believers in Christianity have still used the books in the bible as sources for their scientific research. To a non-believer, the bible still serves as an accurate historical record. The book of Mormon can not make this claim because it's fiction (with the exception of the parts that were plagiarized from Smith's (King James version) bible.

The golden plates were supposedly confiscated by the angel Moroni after they were only 1/3 translated, and there whereabouts is currently unknown, yet for all of this the LDS church rests upon the accuracy of Smith's supposed "translation" of them. At least with the bible, whether one is a believer or non-believer, there are many collateral scrolls and texts in existence dating from the 1st Century that have been available to scholars for a long time now (not counting what was burned by the Nicene Council after they canonized what we have today as the "bible").

Mormons say that they are Christian because their church is named the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. They use the scripture "by their fruits ye shall know them" in defense of any challenges, citing all the good works that their Church does should prove their authenticity.

The LDS Church is not intolerant of other religions or sects, but they do believe that the mainline Churches are based on error and missing parts of the Gospel, which supposedly were restored through Joseph Smith (they call him a prophet). Joseph Smith was heavily into the occult (this is vehemently denied by the LDS church, but there are collateral sources from others who knew Smith before he founded the LDS religion, and even some who left the church early on). Many LDS beliefs are reflective of Joseph Smith's fascination with the occult (for example, being baptized for dead people and the belief that God has a wife and that they procreated in heaven and produced spirits that are still there, waiting to come down and get a body (hence the push for large families)).

The church's position is one of non-hostility, though it's first and foremost tenet is its exclusivity. You either are a member of "the true church" or not.

Outside of Utah you find that LDS people may be more tolerant of non-LDS people, but here in Utah there is a lot of shunning. Of course, if you ask them, they will usually deny it. Just read some of the threads about Utah and you will see what I'm talking about.

I'd be happy to discuss more offline if you are interested. There are also some interesting links where you can read more about, from ex-mormons who have left the church and become Christians, but the forum doesn't allow posting of links here.

[burdell]

Originally Posted by RCL

The church's position is one of non-hostility, though it's first and foremost tenet is its exclusivity. You either are a member of "the true church" or not.

Outside of Utah you find that LDS people may be more tolerant of non-LDS people, but here in Utah there is a lot of shunning. Of course, if you ask them, they will usually deny it. Just read some of the threads about Utah and you will see what I'm talking about.

I'd be happy to discuss more offline if you are interested. There are also some interesting links where you can read more about, from ex-mormons who have left the church and become Christians, but the forum doesn't allow posting of links here.

Thank You so much for a most thoughtful reply. I'm curious how "a member or not" affects non-members in social as well as business situations. I will take your suggestion and visit the Utah forum.

My view has largely become that all religions were created by men and there are at least two undenible facts:

Men are not perfect, no matter how well intentioned they make mistakes.

There are always some who will lie, cheat, and steal to better their position in life.

My own feeling is that it's how you live your life and treat others, not what you do or where you are for an hour on the Sabbath that matter.

[RCL]

There was not enough available space to include this in my post above but I want to clarify a couple of things, number one that it's NOT a personal attack against LDS people and number two, even though this is not a theological forum, the question that was asked is very pertinent when you are looking at living in Idaho or Utah because of the large number of LDS people there.

I want to emphasize that most LDS are not overtly hateful, mean or bad people. But, if you are not a member of their church, you will find some discrimination in Utah and from what I've heard/read also in Idaho.

I gathered that you are possibly looking into moving to Idaho and interested to understand how you would be perceived from their point of view. I hope I answered your question(s).

The LDS religion plays a large part in social culture in Utah and from what I hear/read also certain areas of Idaho. You will be approached by your neighbors and persistently invited to learn more about their faith.

Now you have the information in advance. Actually, it's more information than they hope you know because usually when you bring up certain points where you disagree, or show them facts about the shady character of Joseph Smith, most immediately want to end the discussion and go no further.

[RCL]

Originally Posted by burdell

Thank You so much for a most thoughtful reply. I'm curious how "a member or not" affects non-members in social as well as business situations. I will take your suggestion and visit the Utah forum.

My view has largely become that all religions were created by men and there are at least two undenible facts:

Men are not perfect, no matter how well intentioned they make mistakes.

There are always some who will lie, cheat, and steal to better their position in life.

My own feeling is that it's how you live your life and treat others, not what you do or where you are for an hour on the Sabbath that matter.

It's not easy to articulate when you are being discriminated against or not, because there are no signs in the business windows that say Mormons Only, for example...and you can't always blame poor service on discrimination, but after a while you do start to sense a pattern in that connections from the church get people better service when dealing with businesses such as contractors, mechanics, landscapers, etc. for example.

While it hasn't happened to me, I have heard of some instances where on a job application, for example, they were asked to list which "ward" they were a member of and their "bishop's name/number". Of course you can ask someone this after you hire them, if you just want to have an emergency contact or something, but to ask it on an application (other than "general references") is pretty blatant.

Same thing when renting a house/apartment. Now that is a big deal. There are still ads you read where people rent property and they are looking for "must have high standards". That's code word for "you can apply but if you are not LDS I won't rent to you".

I've also heard of some favoritism in the work place. Of course, you have that anywhere you go, but it does seem to be a prevalent theme of discussion among non-LDS people who either currently live here or have lived here and moved away.

I think it deals more with human nature than anything. The church does not come out and tell its members to discriminate, if that's what you were wondering. Some people probably do discriminate willfully, but what I think happens more often than not is that they are just wary of outsiders (xenophobic) and want to associate with people who think they way they think. I personally think that's not a healthy way to live, but I respect their right to segregate themselves if they want to.

I believe religion is a very personal thing, many times opinions/beliefs differ from person to person and again I don't hate LDS people. Even though I may not believe the way someone else believes, I respect and support their right to believe it. But from a doctrinal standpoint, LDS and Christianity are as fundamentally different as Islam and Christianity. Does that mean I hate them? No. Just stating the differences in belief systems and showing how the belief that "we are the one and only" can cause problems. This kind of thinking has caused problems in the world for centuries, and still does today.

I am more than happy to live in Utah and not try to convince LDS people that they should change their beliefs. If asked, I will tell them what I believe, but aside from that I try to just live a good life according to my beliefs and if they ask why I believe a certain way then I will tell them. I think many other people (Christians and non-Christians) who live here feel the same way. However, it's not entirely like this with LDS people. They ask you right away whether you are LDS, and if you are not, then it's a little more than just agreeing to disagree. They send missionaries to your home and they find opportunities to try to bring up the subject a lot in the hopes of convincing you that in the end, you are wrong and they are right. That's the difference between living here and other places.

[burdell]

Originally Posted by burdell

My view has largely become that all religions were created by men and there are at least two undenible facts:

Men are not perfect, no matter how well intentioned they make mistakes.

There are always some who will lie, cheat, and steal to better their position in life.

My own feeling is that it's how you live your life and treat others, not what you do or where you are for an hour on the Sabbath that matter.

I just wanted to add that I hope I was not taken to be anti-religion, I just get a bit edgy when someone tells me their way is the only way.

[izzy]

Hi,
I'm LDS. I would like to share a story that is often told in our church. I may not have all the details correct. But I think you will get the drift.

In a Mormon settlement long time ago. There came a Baptist minister. He had no where to give his sermon. The elders gave him a building to hold services in. The minister said he had no choir to sing, the elders loaned him a mormon choir, he said he had no baptist to give a sermon too. The elders sent members to hear the sermon.

This story is told often. It is meant to teach members the view of the church that we are not to talk badly about other churches and to respect other religions and their members. Just as we are also taught to obey the law of the land.

I'm a convert in CA. My husband was raised in the church as was his parents before him. I have never tried to convert anyone. I do enjoy the very strong family first statement, from the church. As in most religions we do look for new members. But I don't see that as any different from the other religious folks that come knocking on our door It is a part of most religions to look for new members.

I think sometimes members hang out with each other more than others is because we are so often disapproved of by other religions. It is easier to hang out with folks that are not picking your religion apart. Almost all my friends are non-members. But we respect each other enough not to bad mouth each others religion.

Here in CA I don't get that much. We are such a melting pot of other religions. CA has a strong approach in schools, public places and in employment of non-religion conflicts. Or singling out based on religion. Folks who do it...don't do it for long.

This is not a religous site. But the questions are asked. and I have seen many other threads that bring up the LDS.

Hope this is an insight to a very average family, that is LDS.

Izzy

[burdell]

Originally Posted by izzy

Hi,
I'm LDS. I would like to share a story that is often told in our church. I may not have all the details correct. But I think you will get the drift.

In a Mormon settlement long time ago. There came a Baptist minister. He had no where to give his sermon. The elders gave him a building to hold services in. The minister said he had no choir to sing, the elders loaned him a mormon choir, he said he had no baptist to give a sermon too. The elders sent members to hear the sermon.

This story is told often. It is meant to teach members the view of the church that we are not to talk badly about other churches and to respect other religions and their members. Just as we are also taught to obey the law of the land.

This is not a religous site. But the questions are asked. and I have seen many other threads that bring up the LDS.

Hope this is an insight to a very average family, that is LDS.

Izzy

That's the way I'd hope all religions could be, it would truly make the world a better place.

You're right that it's not a religious site but when it may affect the quality of life I think it's a valid, interesting, and needed discussion.

Thanks for your input.

[izzy]

Hi Burdell,

Anytime. We are looking to relocate in Boise Area. That is why I came to this site a couple of days ago. I've been asking a lot of questions and doing a lot of searches on this site looking at different towns and cities. I see some common concerns in several threads. One is CA residents driving prices up. I will ask for lots of comps. To get the same price as ID residents. I may buy in the winter. Since it sounds like most CA folks buy in the summer. Another common concern seems to be informing CA residents about the LDS in the state and how that might affect their fitting into the community.

You're right folks should be aware of any strong factors in the community. I think is great that folks in Idaho are trying to help CA residents on this site. I was so glad that I found the site. Well back to researching the Boise area.

Thanks,

Izzy