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Old 02-04-2013, 04:16 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
9,158 posts, read 5,456,399 times
Reputation: 4025

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Both Jim and JKK you are both correct. It is buyer beware, and if you don't want to live under a set of rules don't agree to live in a community such as IC_Delight did.

From the Orlando Sentiniel:

Quote:
HOAs protect our property values. They maintain flowers in the medians and make sure the playground or the tennis court is kept clean. They make sure your neighbor doesn't construct a 10-foot tribute to Elvis on his lawn.
"I characterize them as mini-democracies," said Pete Dunbar, a Tallahassee lawyer who wrote the book on HOAs ("The Law of Florida Homeowners Associations," now in its ninth edition). "You have bought this property with the knowledge of what the rules are, and you are expected to follow the rules."
His sober reasoning makes the whining seem even more shrill. If you buy a house in a place governed by a set of rules, and you don't bother to learn what those rules are, then you really can't blame anybody but yourself. (bolding is mine, Warden)
If you haven't done this, call your HOA and request a copy today.
And keep in mind, when your HOA board denies your basketball hoop, it's probably not because board members hate basketball.
Beth Kassab: HOA rules aren't made to be broken - Orlando Sentinel

IC bought into an HOA community and did not bother to read the rules or take an active part in overseeing the governance of his community.

Many people, particularly older citizens, prefer an HOA because they are reaching a point in life where mowing lawns or plowing or shoveling snow is not physically feasible. Those people need to know HOW to live in an HOA community, and that it DOES require involvement to keep things on track.

To sum up what Banjomike pointed out on another thread in Idaho regarding politicians in Idaho---every so often Idahoans throw them out regardless of what party they are in because they have forgotten to represent the interests of the people they serve.

That should be a practice in a homeowners association as well.

 
Old 02-04-2013, 04:22 PM
 
2,818 posts, read 3,334,409 times
Reputation: 3015
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden View Post
You are failing to respond to my previous two posts so I must have struck a nerve. You wont tell us the name of your CAI attorney and you will not provide sound reasonable advice to 62 million Americans living in HOA's and what to do about the several hundred more being proliferated each year. You also don't tell us how you were FORCED into buying into an HOA without knowledge of the HOA. I will continue to post the above until you fully reveal lying about your attorney, and how you were either duped or proved yourself personally incompetent when purchasing into an HOA.
You just can't stop from trying to make demands on others can you? Typical HOA board member mentality. You just can't wait to try to find another HOA board to get on can you?

I have no obligation to respond to your inquiry Wardendresden, however, I have already responded several times. We did not and would not use a CAI attorney. CAI represents the industry, not the homeowners. Your question is nonsensical since it purports to demand the name of our "CAI attorney". Perhaps you understand "not applicable"?

There is no fixing HOAs and the 62 million you quote includes condo properties. These are two entirely different forms of properties. Condos are a purely statutory ownership creature. However, SFH have been around a long time - long before there were HOAs. So HOAs clearly are not necessary. All your comment boils down to is exposing the myth of choice.

The rest of your diatribe doesn't deserve a response. I will say, however, that the HOA corporation is paying us and not vice versa. I'm probably your worst nightmare Wardendresden because I don't rely upon propaganda from industry hacks for research. I certainly would never believe a "board member" without verifying and double-checking their representations. You certainly fit the bill of the typical wannabe board member because you are capable only of parroting whatever the industry hacks feed you.

I'm sure the OP is tired of comments from all sides, however, I sincerely hope that your comments in particular are self-evident as to why he should avoid HOA property like the plague.

Quote:
In later posts I will provide laws from several states that illustrated protections for homeowners from HOA abuse. And certainly trade groups attempt to mitigate the effect of laws on their business. That's why they FIGHT legislation controlling them.
Well start another thread because you are way beyond topic on this one. When the primary businesses are fee pyramiding and extortion, then the businesses need to be put out of business.

I see that j_k_k has considered your comments and decided to stay away from HOA-burdened properties. Mission accomplished. Thanks again, Wardendresden - you make it easy.
 
Old 02-04-2013, 05:10 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
9,158 posts, read 5,456,399 times
Reputation: 4025
Default Thanks for confirming MY suspicions.

[quote=IC_deLight;28093495]You just can't stop from trying to make demands on others can you? Typical HOA board member mentality. You just can't wait to try to find another HOA board to get on can you?

I have no obligation to respond to your inquiry Wardendresden, however, I have already responded several times. We did not and would not use a CAI attorney. CAI represents the industry, not the homeowners. Your question is nonsensical since it purports to demand the name of our "CAI attorney". Perhaps you understand "not applicable"? [quote=IC_deLight;28093495]

Well, it is time to end this thread. You have no obligation to provide information to verify your honesty. And I and others have no reason to believe you have other than nefarious reasons for hiding the same.

YOU ARE using a CAI attorney, you ARE an angry and bitter man, as proven by your posts all over the country in opposition to any advice but your own.

You refuse to accept Wikipedia evidence that HOAs are proliferating in single family homes due to the U.S. Clean Water Act of 1977. You have nothing to offer people who already live in HOA's---when you could offer some very GOOD advice, as in, "Don't buy into one unless you do a lot more research into the HOA than I did."

Even the worst of us can serve as a bad example to others.

I have acknowledged that a poorly run HOA can be a problem. That's why laws need to exist for those that live in them. I've pointed out that many people are satisfied within HOAs because they want rules over a ten foot Elvis in their neighbors yard, or they don't want to have to mow grass or shovel snow. You have no positive answer to those individuals. Nothing. NADA.

You insist ALL HOAs are run poorly, showing to everyone that you value YOUR opinion over any facts that can be presented. That displays arrogance and selfishness that I would think you would prefer to avoid.

But I will retire from the thread so that you may post the last of what has turned into a long line of pathetic posts by both of us.
 
Old 02-05-2013, 12:45 AM
 
Location: Aloverton
6,564 posts, read 12,274,511 times
Reputation: 10009
Quote:
Originally Posted by IC_deLight View Post
I see that j_k_k has considered your comments and decided to stay away from HOA-burdened properties. Mission accomplished. Thanks again, Wardendresden - you make it easy.
Well, let's please not let attribution get off target here. I was already planning to avoid HOAs like pulmonary anthrax. The full discussion, all sides, simply supported that viewpoint.

When I think of HOA living, with grass measurers and other hall monitor type activities, I think of maybe Connecticut or southern California. When I think of one having the right to manage one's property as one pleases within the law, I think of Idaho. This is me preferring Idaho.
 
Old 02-05-2013, 07:51 AM
 
2,818 posts, read 3,334,409 times
Reputation: 3015
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden View Post
Well, it is time to end this thread. You have no obligation to provide information to verify your honesty. And I and others have no reason to believe you have other than nefarious reasons for hiding the same.

YOU ARE using a CAI attorney, you ARE an angry and bitter man, as proven by your posts all over the country in opposition to any advice but your own.
Quite positive that we did not use a CAI attorney. CAI attorneys do not represent the interests of the homeowners. As noted above, CAI attorneys promote the trade group over the owners. The HOA attorney - his firm was a "platinum member" of the local CAI chapter. The HOA attorney lost. Ha. Of course if there had not been an HOA corporation we would not have had to spend money on attorney fees at all nor would we have even been in litigation. Since the HOA corporation lost, now all the other homeowners get to watch those assessments they paid in get used to pay both the HOA attorney and our attorney. There is no shortgage of litigation with HOA corporations because there is always a board member or management company that will provoke it.

Quote:
You refuse to accept Wikipedia evidence that HOAs are proliferating in single family homes due to the U.S. Clean Water Act of 1977. You have nothing to offer people who already live in HOA's---when you could offer some very GOOD advice, as in, "Don't buy into one unless you do a lot more research into the HOA than I did."
Wikipedia is not "evidence". Wikipedia is hearsay. I have no problem with the hypothesis that HOAs are not the result of consumer demand. Numerosity is not the same thing as popularity regardless of whether you are talking about cockroaches, epidemics, or HOAs. An increasing amount of HOA-burdened property will just increase the value of non-HOA property.

Those stuck with HOA-burdened property should minimize the equity in "their" homes to protect themselves by getting a mortgage as large as possible. This will minimize the potential for loss as well as any actual loss. The HOA attorneys and management companies know that the best money for them comes from threatening homeowners that have large amounts of equity or outright ownership of their homes. Tends to be senior citizen types - that's where G. Solomon encountered the HOA problem - elder abuse.

Quote:
Even the worst of us can serve as a bad example to others.
??? Never met a board member that didn't think they did a great job. You did say you used to be an HOA board member, right? Homeowners are not looking to board members as "examples".

Quote:
I have acknowledged that a poorly run HOA can be a problem. That's why laws need to exist for those that live in them. I've pointed out that many people are satisfied within HOAs because they want rules over a ten foot Elvis in their neighbors yard, or they don't want to have to mow grass or shovel snow. You have no positive answer to those individuals. Nothing. NADA.
Owners don't need an HOA corporation burdening their property to mow your grass or to shovel snow. If you are too lazy (you said "want" instead of "can't") to mow grass or shovel snow then you can hire whom you choose, at a price you negotiate, and when you want. An HOA corporation serves only to saddle owners with a liability for services that they do not want from vendors they did not contract with at prices they did not agree to and at times that are not of their preference. The cost is more expensive because there is always at least one middleman and often more than one. Someone has to pay for the kickbacks to the management company and board members after all. Instead of having any control whatsoever over expenses, owners are forced to pay whatever is demanded under threat of foreclosure on the home. You're being "served" alright - as the main course. You are the prey.

Surely you are aware that it is possible to have deed restrictions without an involuntary membership HOA corporation. If you want your neighbors living in such a controlled state then perhaps you should consider an apartment because you are obviously not capable of recognizing fundamental elements of "ownership". Apartment tenants have more rights than HOA-burdened homeowners. At least apartment rent has to remain competitive. HOA assessments do not. CAI promotes unlimited assessments as one of their "public policies". Tends to facilitate their debt creation and collection business.

Quote:
You insist ALL HOAs are run poorly, showing to everyone that you value YOUR opinion over any facts that can be presented. That displays arrogance and selfishness that I would think you would prefer to avoid.
The inability to threaten me with fines or foreclosure is just too much for you to handle, isn't it? You haven't presented any "facts" that any HOA is "run well" or even how to define "run well". That's like promoting slavery by claiming there are "good masters"? The thing to be avoided is HOA-burdened property (and condos).
 
Old 02-05-2013, 11:42 AM
 
2,575 posts, read 4,674,274 times
Reputation: 6373
Is there a moderator who can close this thread? I think this horse has been beaten enough.
 
Old 02-05-2013, 12:58 PM
 
Location: central Orygun coast
594 posts, read 594,819 times
Reputation: 623
Quote:
Originally Posted by ukiyo-e View Post
Is there a moderator who can close this thread? I think this horse has been beaten enough.
Maybe, but I was certainly educated on HOAs. Thanks to both for that.
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