AR to ID...am I nuts?

[Need2Leave]

The point was that all waters should be free for anyone to use as they wish , not restricting the rights of others that wish to employ a local guide.

[stingraynm]

Originally Posted by Need2Leave

The point was that all waters should be free for anyone to use as they wish , not restricting the rights of others that wish to employ a local guide.

Oh, I see... I actually wasn't aware that the rights of people who employ guides were restricted.

Really, from my more libertarian leanings, one of the most frustrating aspects of society is the lack of personal/social responsibility that seems almost innate to the majority of people. If people could respect their surroundings and one another, totalitarianism and all its slippery slopes wouldn't have a leg to stand on. Of course, as irresponsibility is all too common, idealism has no option but to give way to cynicism.

For wilderness, a lot of it comes back to a spite I have for people who buy up land, put up fences, and then never use the land. The dissonance comes when I see people mistreating public land and wish someone would fence it off and control access.

Ideally, wilderness should not be regulated as it seems to have done just fine for a pretty long time. Realistically, humanity has thrown a wrench in those gears by becoming too populated for all of us enjoy wilderness equally. Even the self-sufficient transcendentalism of Thoreau is being driven into the category of privileges lost with time.

Irresponsibility dwarfs even its totalitarian aftermath as the biggest insult to freedom and liberty. If current trends continue without a change of conscience on the mass level, we are not far from a day when even the right to conceive new life will be regulated.

[Need2Leave]

Sure, if what the O.P. said is true about the S.F. of the Boise river being closed to guides, that certainly restricts the rights of the fisherman who wants to hire someone to help fish it. Why should one river allow the employ of a guide while another forbids it? If all aplicable regs are followed I for one don't care one bit who is standing over your shoulder telling you what to do, or how much you paid said person.

[gcflyfish]

I think it all comes down to Idaho wanting some water just for locals and those fishing on their own. Guides have more of an environmental footprint than just looking over someone's shoulder. Guide traffic is steady and can slowly degrade roads and other facilities. They walk through the same spots day in and day out. And we can not forget that catch and release fishing is not without impacts, as well. That is why states like Idaho are so restrictive with guiding. They are creating a demand for liscencing thus forcing the guides and outfitters to pick up the tab, so to speak, for their impact. I really think this is the way to go because it creates a demand for the services, so everyone wins. Personally, I feel since states hire biologists to figure out what is best for the resources that it should be their call on recommending regulations. If you start mico managing for commercial interests, you'll end up like Arkansas with money deciding what is best for everyone. This doesn't allow for much conservation.

And if I'm correct (I'm not 100% sure) about the South Fork, it's not like there's not thousands of miles of coldwater streams within three hours of Boise. I, like Idaho feel that some things are indeed sacred and require special management consideration. It's not like an angler couldn't hire a guide for a day and learn the general strategies and then apply them on their own on a guide-restricted river.

Great discussion,

Gabe

[Need2Leave]

Good point Gabe, didn't think much about the extra trafic, etc. And yes, I too am inclined to trust the biologists. Rep's up

[boi2socal]

Originally Posted by stingraynm

Yeah, the entire Treasure Valley actually turns Boise into a sprawled out metropolis with varying densities. The entire "metro area" has approximately 300,000+ people. About 75,000 of that are separated by a good deal of rural property that is slowly being turned into suburbs. Visiting Nampa or Caldwell, the drive feels like you've left the "city", while entering Eagle or Meridian is nothing more than passing a sign nowadays.

Well, Ada County is already at 300,000 plus. The Metro is around 600k now.

[kristinl5]

There are great places for fishing and white water rafting (if you get a mind to do that) I myself love to fish and enjoy going up around the Lowman area and on the Payette...As for investment properties in the Treasure Valley there are some really great deals out there!!! You should like the Boise area its a beautiful place to be...as for traffic on the Boise, there is the summer time when floating the river is a tradition.