AR to ID...am I nuts? (Boise, Nampa: spring break, rent, how much)

[gcflyfish]

Hello everyone. I'm happy I found this forum. Anyway, here's a little bit about me. I'm almost 35, and I am newly married to a beautiful young thing. My original reason for coming to Arkansas was that I wanted a taste of the easy life, and there's nothing "easier" than being a fly fishing guide. Until reality, like 2008 hits. What a tough year in the Ozarks: floods, more floods, and then this recent econic turmoil. My situation could be worse, but I am pretty much broke and in need of a change.

My first cousin lives in Boise, and he's always wanted me to move there. I am not really looking to get into fly fishing as a career again, but I would if that's all I could get into. My goal is to write, but those jobs are coveted and take some time to get into. Here's my question: with rent so low, is it still possible to find work "to get you by"? We've become used to having nothing, so just keeping up with the bills would be a major step up.

I've put myself in a position where I have no choice but to go, but like any change, apprehension follows giddiness. Hopefully I'll have a place to stay for a month while we scope things out.

Any input would be greatly appreciated. My wife and I are educated and ready to get to work on our lives. It seems like there could be worse places to start over than Boise.

Gcflyfish

[boi2socal]

For reference Boise is somewhat similar to the Little Rock Metro Area.

As any rational local will tell you don't come without a job. But this is really the case in any city in America.

[Perkinst]

Yes, very important, make sure you have a job, or know someone that can get you a job "to get you by". Bilingual, (spanish), is a plus in finding more job opertunities in the Treasure Valley.
Good luck.

[stingraynm]

I just recently went to Arkansas for my grandmother's wake. The maternal side of my family has roots there, and I was very pleased with how much the culture resembled Idaho. You'll find much of the same friendliness and appreciation of outdoor recreation... and NO chiggers! Idaho also pulls off a bit more federal sway than Arkansas, so the state as a whole seems better "maintained", if you will.

Others are right in this forum to say that you'll want to have a job on hand when you come to Boise. If your cousin is willing to make the understandably rare sacrifice of putting you and your wife up for a while, you would also have an easier time finding work as a local. Still, I've seen that sort of thing sour relationships that initially possessed the affinity and kinship to be extremely generous, so that's yours and your cousin's to call.

Boise has ample service sector and blue collar work with continuous turnover, but rec jobs are just as coveted as they are plentiful in Idaho. If you're a good marketer and enjoy digging up discrete social events where you can reach out to prospective customers, you could probably pull off a personal business as a fly fishing guide, but I'm sure you know at this point that affiliation is worth its benefits for both marketing and liability. Fly fishing guide bizzes are worth a look, though, since they won't be as saturated with applicants as those for rafting guides or backpacking guides.

White collar jobs in Idaho just lead to very picky employers since the whole market is saturated with hopeful applicants. The whole state has great academic institutions, too, so the barrage never relents, especially in the Treasure Valley where graduated youth tend to converge if they haven't fallen in love with their college, hometown, or stomping regions.

Best of hopes. If you can make it work, you'll enjoy Idaho. Pretty much a lifetime worth of fishing exploration in itself.

[gcflyfish]

Thank you guys for the great responses!!! The advice given is sound and taken to heart. Over the last few days my wife and I have decided to move in the next few weeks. I would never claim to have had very good financial fortune, but I have managed to sell my boat and my business here...what's nice is that I've worked out a "deal" to get 20% of the guide fees from my friend aquiring the business. I have to help him manage the website, but I will paid on all trips he does, not just the ones I get him. That should mean $300 to $800 per month from February through May. If it works out this way, my buddy will be in Boise by mid summer to look at investment properties (he's got far more options than this poor Chicago-raised boy). Another thing is that I will get a "firm" $500/month, so I at least won't be getting out there with absolutely nothing.

The reason I am telling you all this is because I wonder if this will give me the cushion to move out without a job? My wife and I are both willing to do service sector work until something better comes along. Rent seems just as cheap as in Arkansas (and you get far more for your $$$). I still don't know if my cousin will put us up, but regardless, we are not totally destitute and should be able to figure something out. Hopefully if we stay with him, it will not be for over a month.

If I had known more about the Treasure Valley, I would have moved sooner. Honestly, I thought Boise was smaller and more of a tourist area like Traverse City, MI. My impressions now are that Boise is probably a cross between Madison, Wisconsin and Little Rock...with a better climate. I would love to get involved with fly fishing in the area, but ideally I would like to guide part-time, like on the weekends. I have been guiding on the extremely tricky and enigmatic White River for 9 years where the water flows can change by the minute. For this reason it is somewhat easy to learn other rivers...we see pretty much everything on the White...often in the same day.

Now y'all are scaring me a little bit about the people there being like in Arkansas, but seriously, the people here are very friendly. Sure they love the outdoors, but they are somewhat ignorant when it comes to respecting natural resources. A few years back a local guide had 43 fish in his boat's possession at lunch. The limit was 12 (still gaudy in itself...I release EVERYTHING). This type of occurence isn't usually discovered, and it seems like we have the best 'garden' in the world for growing trout, but people will continually harvest before things are ripe. This is disheartening and has given us the image in the angling community of a great fishery with few stewards of the water. This is sadly true. But still, I can't wait to meet the people out there. I've lived in Boulder, Chicago, Ft. Meyers, Springfield (Mo), and Arkansas since graduating from University of Missouri in 1998. I know all about moving with nothing to go on, and Boulder was the scariest because it was loaded with college grads on a pilgrimage. And yes Boiseans, I understand that this city was home to the greatest heartbreak of my college career: UCLA's one point win over the Tigers in 1995 on Tyus Edny's end to end scamper. I still have nightmares about that crazy blue and orange court.

Thanks again for all the advice, and keep it coming.

gcflyfish

[stingraynm]

Originally Posted by gcflyfish

If I had known more about the Treasure Valley, I would have moved sooner. Honestly, I thought Boise was smaller and more of a tourist area like Traverse City, MI. My impressions now are that Boise is probably a cross between Madison, Wisconsin and Little Rock...with a better climate. I would love to get involved with fly fishing in the area, but ideally I would like to guide part-time, like on the weekends. I have been guiding on the extremely tricky and enigmatic White River for 9 years where the water flows can change by the minute. For this reason it is somewhat easy to learn other rivers...we see pretty much everything on the White...often in the same day.

Now y'all are scaring me a little bit about the people there being like in Arkansas, but seriously, the people here are very friendly. Sure they love the outdoors, but they are somewhat ignorant when it comes to respecting natural resources. A few years back a local guide had 43 fish in his boat's possession at lunch. The limit was 12 (still gaudy in itself...I release EVERYTHING). This type of occurence isn't usually discovered, and it seems like we have the best 'garden' in the world for growing trout, but people will continually harvest before things are ripe. This is disheartening and has given us the image in the angling community of a great fishery with few stewards of the water. This is sadly true.

Yeah, the entire Treasure Valley actually turns Boise into a sprawled out metropolis with varying densities. The entire "metro area" has approximately 300,000+ people. About 75,000 of that are separated by a good deal of rural property that is slowly being turned into suburbs. Visiting Nampa or Caldwell, the drive feels like you've left the "city", while entering Eagle or Meridian is nothing more than passing a sign nowadays.

As for the resource conservation mentality, it's quite mixed. You'll get a lot of what I call "true Idahoans" who respect areas and activities they enjoy for an optimistic future, and then you get jerks who treat the land and its resources like a tourist toy that exists solely for their short-sighted convenience and amusement. These types have no shame in their disrespect. Most of them are pretentious folk who think they're too good to haul trash in their car or dig a hole for their excrement. They make me wanna pop 'em upside the head and exclaim that their mother doesn't clean up after them in the wilderness. Luckily, a lot of these people are too dense to succeed at - let alone appreciate - activities like fishing. The major problem with certain overused marine areas in Idaho would probably be pH-related due to excessive motorized boating and littering, and that's more an issue for lakes than for rivers. Also, thankfully, Fish & Game officers have zero tolerance for over-fishing or keeping undersized fish.

[Need2Leave]

Originally Posted by gcflyfish

And yes Boiseans, I understand that this city was home to the greatest heartbreak of my college career: UCLA's one point win over the Tigers in 1995 on Tyus Edny's end to end scamper. I still have nightmares about that crazy blue and orange court.

Thanks again for all the advice, and keep it coming.

gcflyfish

So what ever happened to that guy... I remember the play like it was yesterday... fastest 4 seconds of my life (what happened to the Obannon brothers from that squad?)... anyhow Boise's a good city, the valley's a bit bigger than I remember Madison though... although it's been a while.

Local (guidable) fly fishing is the S. fork of the Boise river. There are guides all over the state... not so sure how many clients they will have in the next year or two... or ten, but the fishing's still good most anywhere... even close to town (any town in ID) when you only have a couple hours... Oh, almost forgot you are not nuts, Idaho's a good place to be. However job hunting might suck these days.

[gcflyfish]

Stingray...it sounds like Idaho folks definately appreciate their resources more than Arkansas. The state has a dubious distinction of completely decimating species such as elk and deer in the early 1900's. Deer are still here, but the elk are basically penned, never to return to the historic numbers. There used to be a mantra in the Ozarks that no edible creature is too small to eat: they all add flavor to the stew. So when you examine the White River and Norfork Tailwater, it's sad to think that with just a little regulation tweaking, you could have the best incubator for insane trout growth in the world. Fish can grow an inch a month, but most of what you catch on a typical year are fish 12-14 inches. That's disgusting considering trout are stocked at 10-12 inches. Most only survive a few months before harvest or hook mortality. It's crazy how people around here are getting killed by the economy, but they still do not want to compromise on better regs. If we had a reputation like the San Juan (your state), higher end anglers would come in droves for the chance at a 10-30lb brown. There is a place for harvest and bait fishing, but 97% of the water is too much. That's ridiculous. But there is a 24" minimum/one fish reg on Browns going into effect in 12 days, but bait will still be allowed. Browns are stong, so this reg will help, but Arkansas really needs more restrictive trophy areas. There are three one-mile catch and release areas on our quality waters, but they are too short, open-ended, and they are basically a place where serious anglers can avoid anchored boats chumming corn without noticeable trout quality increases. Yes, chumming is allowed. What an embarrassment. When I get out to Boise I'm unleashing articles exposing this BS, but if I did that here I might get some property (or bones) destroyed. These folks love their right to chum, kill fish that are not harvested (hook mortality) like it's a friggin' God-given right. They need to be reminded that the White and Norfork belong to all of us, not just the folks making money off the resources. Man it's frustrating.

It does seem like Idaho is far more restrictive, and as a fly fisherman, I like that. The only regulations I worry about are seasonal closures and hook limits because I always fish artificial and I don't kill trout. I am just thrilled to see some new water, meet some new people, and I really want to get physically active. In Cotter, Arkansas there is absolutely nothing to do but fish, hunt, and sit at home. I want to start playing hockey again and I want to hike and bike. We're definately excited.

Need2leave: Yeah, I remember that shot like it was yesterday as well. I was flying back to St. Louis after spring break from LA, and I saw Mizzou had a huge lead when we got in (like 14 points), and there was only like 7 minutes left. So I find a bar in the airport, and everyone is really excited, especially when Missouri took the lead by one with 4.8 seconds left. Now, Norm Stewart (bad coach) cost Mizzou their chance by putting the 6'8" Derrick Grimm in to guard the rim. I'm sure Norm, like all of us assumed the last shot would be a jumper not a layup, but he did have two worthless 7-foot twins (Haley's) on the bench who could of stood there and made it a little tougher for the 5'6" Edny to see the hoop. I have no idea what happened to all those stars on UCLA. Edney was in the NBA for awhile and now plays in Europe where he's quite the star, and both of the O'bannon's played in the NBA for a second. Check this out: Tyus Edney - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia . I'm sure they all have real jobs now and they sit around talking about the good ole days. UCLA did win a championship in 1995, beating Arkansas in Seattle. It was crazy how quickly that airport bar cleared out after that shot, and back in Columbia it was like someone had died. A few weeks later Bob Costas came to speak on campus, and I knew he'd start with a Tyus Edney quip and he surely did. That play reaffirmed Mizzou's status as the biggest heartbreak sports program in the US (debateable).

Yeah, guiding is not necessarily what I want to do right away. It would be nice to find something in the fishing industry, because at 34, that is where all my professional experience lies, but I'm willing to do service work while I scope things out. I also have a financial interest in my guide service in Arkansas, and if anyone comes fishing this year, I'll get a cut off several guides I work with. I thought I read that you couldn't guide on the South Fork of the Boise. I'd like that because it's nice to have waters not clogged by drift boats, although Idaho's perception of clogged is probably far different than Arkansas. I've seen over 75 waders in a half mile before. It's a zoo.

Thanks guys for the help, and I am enjoying the discussion. Maybe you Idaho folks are alright . Look forward to hearing back.

Gabe

[Need2Leave]

Sorry, didn't realize there were any waters that couldn't be guided...never looked into either side of guided trips myself... I figure if a guy wants to pay someone to tell him what to tie on and where to cast it, well more power to him

[stingraynm]

Originally Posted by Need2Leave

Sorry, didn't realize there were any waters that couldn't be guided...never looked into either side of guided trips myself... I figure if a guy wants to pay someone to tell him what to tie on and where to cast it, well more power to him

There are actually a lot of subtle understandings in fishing, all of which make it a much more rewarding activity with some mentoring. Anybody can learn to tie and cast in a day, and often when I'd rather just drink and watch the water flow, that's all I ever do. However, there is a certain gratification in knowing what to expect and then what to seek out in fish behavior and water flow, respectively.