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Gangs have more to do with culture than poverty.. I say we take all people who are affiliated with gangs and convicted of gang-related crimes and put them in hard-labor camps and chain-gangs. Most gang members get arrested where they go to prison and live an easy life and get better trained in the gang-lifestyle than even they could learn on the streets. Let prison, be a place they loathe to go.. Sittng around lifting weights, eating good food, having a nice bed, toilet, shower and watching TV, playing games at the tax-payer's expense is not what I call a punishment. Send them to the Siberian-style labor camps and see how many of them would be eager to go around committing the crimes they do.
Once again, I have lived around and visited many poor white neighborhoods and don't notice any gang activity. As a matter of fact, some of those poor trailer towns i was in the Pacific NW, like Albion, WA, were much poorer than some of the Hispanic or Black slums I have been to. Yet, they have no crime and no gangs. People can make any excuse they like, but I think there is a gang-culture among certain ethnic groups and they like to use poverty as an excuse. I was in Africa for half a year and if you want to talk about real poverty, I can show you a place where people live in mud huts without running water. Yet, I felt safer walking around Ghana, West Africa at night as a white guy with 100 times more money than the locals, as the area had low crime. The law enforcement and people didn't tolerate violent criminals at all. It was not uncommon for the police (and people) to shoot dead a robber or someone who committed a violent crime.
I don't get a sense that he's defending it. More like he's taking a stab at explaining it. Perhaps not to you/our liking or satisfaction, but I don't feel he's insulting our collective intellect.
When I was a gang cop in the ghetto parts of Los Angeles, we saw a lot of the same "reasons" people became involved in gang behavior. No, it doesn't make it right. But it DOES make it reality for those people and thus intrudes into our social structure. The problem won't go away by us being persnickety about it....so please don't...
I meant the factors involved in an inner city youth choosing to become either affiliated with a criminal gang or a member of said gang.
I actually discount poverty as a "reason" of any weight since there are plenty of impoverished areas that don't default to be prone to gang infestation. Neither is the lack of upward mobility, since there are plenty of economically depressed areas around the country that have the same challenge.
I think "banding together for protection" IS in fact a factor among some groups. I've seen groups of young men in the ghetto who were otherwise a "crew" (party or tagging or otherwise) who started carrying weapons simply because they had to in order to avoid being victimized themselves...and once they started down that path, it was hard to stop. So they weren't claiming a barrio or a street area, just a crew that started bangin'.
The "shot callers" (gang leaders) are the typical bully idiots present in any "Lord of the Flies" situation. They thrive from the power of controlling others and being feared and feeling invincible, and being more willing to die by the gun that to ever appear weak or afraid.
But there is a larger group once you get beyond the shot callers and core members that we classified as "affiliates". They weren't really active gang members and generally didn't have extensive criminal records. They mostly committed crimes because they were hanging around gang members (enjoying the "benefits" of that gang's relative protection) and either coerced or prodded into doing something criminal. These are the people that we in law enforcement often felt sorry for. It was the high school athletic star caught in a bad situation...the young girl who suddenly found herself pushed into prostitution for a gang...the young boy who we arrested for holding dope or guns because older siblings told them to do so.
But these families couldn't afford to relocate, and just refusing to do the bidding of the local gang after already into it neck-deep is akin to suicide. The only way out is to minimize public exposure by being in school or other activities that kept them off the streets and thus limited their access to the gang members or more dedicated affiliates. There was a way out for those people...but it took some doing from the families to find ways to keep them out of trouble and plugged in to school, church, and other positive outlets. I knew several LA cops who came straight out of those same messed up neighborhoods...some cops even had siblings and cousins in prison for bangin'....but they chose the hard way and made it out.
So the "reasons" vary for why people are involved in various levels of gang activity, from loose affiliates to actual members to shot callers. And the reasons are not black-and-white...it's not purely from evil intent or poverty or futility of circumstances or education...although I've heard those things used as excuses far too often by people who otherwise could have remained on the straight-and-narrow.
Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys. - P. J. O'Rourke
[quote=MysticalDream;22915483]Gangs have more to do with culture than poverty.. I say we take all people who are affiliated with gangs and convicted of gang-related crimes and put them in hard-labor camps and chain-gangs. Most gang members get arrested where they go to prison and live an easy life and get better trained in the gang-lifestyle than even they could learn on the streets. Let prison, be a place they loathe to go.. Sittng around lifting weights, eating good food, having a nice bed, toilet, shower and watching TV, playing games at the tax-payer's expense is not what I call a punishment. Send them to the Siberian-style labor camps and see how many of them would be eager to go around committing the crimes they do.
WOW...... Close to my thoughts on The Bad Criminals in this Country.
As far back as 30 years ago I told my wife that the Federal Prison system was a Cruel Joke on the American tax payers.
I told her what they should do since it is so expensive to house these Creeps here in the Life style they have come accustom to .. is to Sub Contract the Whole thing to the Russians in Siberia for 50 cents on the dollar.
They need the Cash, and We don't need the Criminals and all the problems that come with them.
Once the word gets out, there will be a whole new way to look at "Doin Time"
I think I might even make a run for President to get it done.
I have lived all around the world and even though I live in Boise, Caldwell is a fine place to live. Yes, there are some economically depressed parts of town but I must admit I have had better service from some of the county officials there than in Boise.
Gangs are in fact in Caldwell as they are almost everywhere these days. However, if you aren't in their face, they are not apt to be in yours. The only drive by shooting I was involved in was from some 10 year old boys on a bicycle that shot me with a super soaker (water gun) a few years ago.
Unfortunately, we do have some citizens that are racists and bigots but they are everywhere too.
If you really want to get down to who might want to regret their immigration policy in the United States, it might go back to the American Indian!
I own a small real estate brokerage [MOD CUT] in Boise and am proud to have sold homes to new friends from Iraq, Bosnia, Croatia, Serbia, Vietnam, Philippines, Korea, Mexico, Canada, and even that country to the south west of here called California (grin).
I have a very dear friend with Down's Syndrome who is on the Board of Directors for Special Olympics International and he taught to love people for who they are, not what they are!
Last edited by Sage of Sagle; 02-19-2012 at 10:35 PM..
Reason: Not allowed per the ToS
As a city grows it gets gangs. That group of people will always be present in the population, so when the population grows so does the number of criminal individuals.
Rounding up every social misfit and throwing them in prison obviously isn't solving the problem. America has the highest per capita prison population in the world, and more people on parole and probation too. If we're putting that many people away and gangs are still growing, then putting people away isn't how you get rid of gangs.
The op is right, what should we expect when kids have nowhere to turn but a neighborhood full of drugs and crime and gangs. Are they supposed to grow up and act like "normal" middle class white kids? We can't look at this like there's just a bunch of people in Canyon County making bad decisions in life. Most of these individuals were born into some crappy neighborhood and grew up there because of whatever reason their parents couldn't move from. It's not any kids fault where they get raised, but they are going to be a product of their environment.
So...I was thinking of movin to Caldwell...but this thread has me wondering if it's a safe area now...all the talk of gangs...a lot of the posts make it sound like you'll be shot if you walk out your door......
I have lived here my whole life, in Caldwell. I've lived in the "ghetto" if you will, and I'm sorry, but all that talk about getting shot is exaggerated. Those people who used to do that, most of them don't anymore. Caldwell got voted one of the top 100 best cities to live in, so doesn't that say something. Really, Caldwell's crime rate has dramatically dropped since the 90's and 2000.
I agree with you AStudent_Caldwell, the crime is exaggerated for Caldwell & Nampa. I talked with the Nampa Police Department about 5 or 6 times prior to moving to Nampa and I have to say I feel very safe here. My husband and I have even been out around 11 pm in the poorer neighborhoods and I don't see any "gangs" or people standing on street corners selling drugs or anything like that.
The only way people get influince is not by others cities or by poverty . That's makes a family to become stronger with in it Limits. U could be all athlete, best writer,or in other subjects in school, even in the streets,we all know everybody is allways in the streets . infact its how U choose to translate words.understand that by making a decion to be all U can be is the only way of life.mind U own cause don't matter with color U R .if ur better in anything and someone else ain't.at the end of the day no money or struggles helps the situation ,boths side are pist .vice versa .so on and so on. Every part of town is the same just some choose not to say groups .keepin it gangsta is the same as groupin or teamsters
stop hating on chicanos and the peoples just Trying to make dollar out of fifteen cents.
I've had friends live in caldwell and take peoples talk about their city only to get robbed in boise that said while attending NNU I saw my fair share of crimes or attempted crimes that I don't recall seeing in boise but thanks to locals and the PD things were usually taken care of compared to many places in the country even caldwell is a haven
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