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Yes we need them. It's okay to have slang, but a language needs standards.
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Originally Posted by PoppySead
I think the thing that bothers me most in novels, is the use of non-speech verbs in speech tags. They almost always come across as unprofessional.
BTW, I was wondering who your publishing company was? Just curious. My husband was surprised when he read this post. Most publishing companies don't have paid 'proofing' staff anymore.
I've been published since I was eleven, but that was in Scotland and England. I used to be with RCA for music, but I didn't like the limitations they put on my creativity. A little bit of "Look what they done to my song, Ma" kind of thing, so I left them. I'm happy with my present publisher and won't be leaving any time soon - God Willing.
I like proofreaders. Fresh eyes are always helpful when there's so much to read. My husband has been running a small publishing house and record company for, oh, thirty-odd years I think. I'm not permitted to mention my work here (my posts just get deleted if I do), or anything specific to do with it. If you'd like to PM me, I'll give you the links to my website and blog and you can take it from there. Fair enough?
I've been published since I was eleven, but that was in Scotland and England. I used to be with RCA for music, but I didn't like the limitations they put on my creativity. A little bit of "Look what they done to my song, Ma" kind of thing, so I left them. I'm happy with my present publisher and won't be leaving any time soon - God Willing.
I like proofreaders. Fresh eyes are always helpful when there's so much to read. My husband has been running a small publishing house and record company for, oh, thirty-odd years I think. I'm not permitted to mention my work here (my posts just get deleted if I do), or anything specific to do with it. If you'd like to PM me, I'll give you the links to my website and blog and you can take it from there. Fair enough?
I find that there seem to be more errors in the nook books, rather than the traditional book format. I do find it distracting. Nothing is more distracting than lousy writing, though.
Most publishing companies don't have paid 'proofing' staff anymore.
Magazines and periodicals have on-staff proofreaders, but fewer of them now compared to 30 years ago. In book publishing, proofreading is outsourced to a professional freelancer (at least one, but up to three might proofread the text). Copy editors and indexers are also freelancers in book publishing.
That's the way it works in the US. In Britain, book publishers use freelance copy editors, but a good number don't hire proofreaders (the author is often responsible for reviewing proofs, and that's unfortunate). Proofreading is a hard job. Most publishing houses offer a test for prospective proofreaders, but it is impossible to pass without experience in the field. I have seen hundreds and hundreds of grammatical and spelling errors marked in galley proofs (new typesetting errors made by the printer plus inevitable oversights by the copy editor and embarrassing mistakes by the author). Pages upon pages of red marks.
Non-fiction should follow basic grammatical rules because its purpose is the efficient transmission of information.
Fiction? If the author intends to eschew certain conventions for a literary purpose (think: Cormac McCarthy) then I have no problem with that. To object to it would be like complaining that Van Gogh's Starry Night really doesn't look like the night sky at all, and that he should have made it more realistic.
As for those posters who think it's their mission to highlight every sentence that doesn't pass their muster, whatever. When they profess that it's a 'pet peeve' when they see there used when their is appropriate (Seriously? - Anyone who gets peeved over such a trifle is the one with the problem, not the one who wrote it), it's all about them getting the stage and showing everyone that they spotted a mistake. I know the difference perfectly well, but I also make mistakes from time to time (the brain outruns the fingers) and, frankly, posts here don't get much of a proofreading from me before I click SUBMIT. I expect the experience is similar with others who make imperfect posts. So those who smugly point them out are not telling us anything at all that we don't know - the vast majority of the time, they're just using such trifles to show off.
As for those posters who think it's their mission to highlight every sentence that doesn't pass their muster, whatever. When they profess that it's a 'pet peeve' when they see there used when their is appropriate (Seriously? - Anyone who gets peeved over such a trifle is the one with the problem, not the one who wrote it), it's all about them getting the stage and showing everyone that they spotted a mistake. I know the difference perfectly well, but I also make mistakes from time to time (the brain outruns the fingers) and, frankly, posts here don't get much of a proofreading from me before I click SUBMIT. I expect the experience is similar with others who make imperfect posts. So those who smugly point them out are not telling us anything at all that we don't know - the vast majority of the time, they're just using such trifles to show off.
You seem almost bitter with your claims that people who point out spelling/grammar errors are looking for the spotlight. I know plenty of people who make mistakes in their posts who have no idea what the correct their/there/they're is along with countless other words and sometimes have posts that I cannot even determine what they are trying to say there are so many errors. I personally do not point this kind of stuff out in people's posts as that is an entirely different circumstance than in a book which should have an editor who should be catching said mistakes. If an author wants to go crazy with their commas or lack of punctuation or whatever, that is their prerogative but that does not mean I have to like it either, just like you are entitled to like it when they do. Pointing this out does not mean I'm looking for the spotlight...far from it, in fact.
It's okay to correct children's grammar, although do it in a way that doesn't embarrass them.
It's also fine to be as accurate as possible with print publications and articles that are posted on the company intranet.
It's not fine to nit-pick the grammar of other posters on a public forum or point out typos. It's also rude to correct other adults, unless they have asked for correction (some foreigners want to speak standard English).
It's okay to correct children's grammar, although do it in a way that doesn't embarrass them.
It's also fine to be as accurate as possible with print publications and articles that are posted on the company intranet.
It's not fine to nit-pick the grammar of other posters on a public forum or point out typos. It's also rude to correct other adults, unless they have asked for correction (some foreigners want to speak standard English).
It's pretty much against the rules here on CD to correct people's grammar but I'm one of those who has trouble reading poor grammar. I have to go back and read it again and sometimes again because I can't understand their use of commas or, of course, the ubiquitous use of the apostrophe to form a plural.
We all make errors but some posts are so filled with errors that it's almost impossible to comprehend what they are trying to say. To add to the problem, I hate to imagine that young people are seeing these errors and copying them, thus compounding the mistakes.
Sometimes I have to go into the Writing Forum where there's a thread called "I Can't Take it Anymore." Thank goodness for that thread. You can vent all you want on there.
A grammatical mistake in a literary work is like a contrail in a civil war movie. It's a contextual boing doesn't belong there, and is jarring when it appears, distracting from what otherwise is a carefully controlled and technically consistent body of work.
"Moby Dick" and "Naked Lunch" don't read the same way, they are not constructed of the same materials. If the rules that define them were abandoned, there could be no difference, and conserving that difference is what's important.
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Originally Posted by Meemur
It's not fine to nit-pick the grammar of other posters on a public forum
I disagree. If a poster is unable to present his argument in acceptable English grammar, it throws into question the integrity of the argument in the first place. One who hasn't the time nor the intellectual or educational background to present his argument in grammatically sound English, might not have thought through his premise very well, either, and it can be germane to point that out.
Would you trust the investment advice of a poster who doesn't know principal from principle?
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I believe that every time errors are allowed to just slip by, especially in print, it leads to the error becoming more and more acceptable, and to the deterioration of the language, and the "stupidification" of the population as a whole.
I don't think there are editors any more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TracySam
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I believe that every time errors are allowed to just slip by, especially in print, it leads to the error becoming more and more acceptable, and to the deterioration of the language, and the "stupidification" of the population as a whole.
Whoever is passing for "editors" apparently agree with most people in believing an apostrophe should accompany an "s", no matter the word!
Investigators are trying to figure out what killed a stowaway who's body was found aboard a cargo ship at the Port of Philadelphia. The ship arrived Thursday after a two week voyage from the Ivory Coast. NBC10's Denise Nakano has more. (Published Monday, May 11, 2015)
When I see the damn apostrophes (literally) everywhere, I wonder WTH happened...
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