Single worst book/author you've ever read? (comic, development, characters)

[ontheroad]

Good post, cpg35223. I agree that some writers, whether they claim or have been elevated by critics and academics to be in the pantheon of literature or fiction, are often over-rated or underachievers. Too often a writer may do one good belch and he/she gets a reputation of a literary giant. You've named one: James Joyce.

But is is rare that I haven't learned or absorbed some tidbit of either wisdom or folly from every book I managed to get through, and I would reckon at this stage that number is now incalculable.

Also what we read and how we read remains personal, and while writers like Thomas Pynchon may appear incomprehensible, he may in another generation or two be likened to many authors who wrote books that required passwords: William Blake.

[ontheroad]

I agree with you on this, RDSLOTS, and some days all I want is a good story (Agatha Christie) and other times I want a good writer (John Fowles).

Hopefully, many of us can make the distinction and continue to read.

Originally Posted by RDSLOTS

I have always contended there is a difference between a good storyteller and a good writer. They are not necessarily one-and-the-same.

[RDSLOTS]

How nice to feel validated, on the road. You are SO right in that sometimes I just want a good story, even a trashy romance on occasion (yes, I'll admit it). And like you, I have never walked away from a book without something -- even if it was only fodder for a nice daydream (I am the wench).

Do you think maybe we have people (specifically, English teachers or college professors **gulp** ) who k-i-l-l a work or an author for us? I vowed never to be like that, myself, as an English teacher and would encourage students, colleagues, to read any and everything -- including those trashy romances or cereal boxes.

I agree on some of the 'William Blakes' and 'James Joyces' out there! I steered away from them, largely because I didn't understand them myself, or like them, but didn't want to keep someone else from reading them.

[ontheroad]

English teachers and professors, these days, and perhaps in former years, are preparing students to go out into the world, but are often restricted by a fixed, and sometimes staid curriculum.

I believe when I recall my own education that I was among the fortunate. I was introduced to the modern, the mundane and the arcane, and was also able to select books on my own.

But I also recall when my youngest daughter, who attended one of the finest elementary schools in NY, came home in tears because her teacher objected when she said she was reading Kafka. The teacher had it in her mind that you didn't read Kafka until some fixed time in life and somehow my daughter would be out of step in the parade by reading FK in 4th grade.

In my view, it is that Kafka she plucked off our family library shelves that has contributed to her wide ranging and challenging reading of today.

[RDSLOTS]

Teachers like the one your daughter crossed paths with make me so angry and frustrated. You have to wonder what-in-the-hell-o are they thinking? How wonderful for your daughter to reach for Kafka, and how much better it would have been had the teacher encouraged her and even suggested other works like Kafka.

Oh, well. I firmly believe we learn from everything -- even the negatives in our lives. I was often stubborn enough to see something through just because or in spite of something or someone.

You needed to send the teacher a copy of Lois Lowry's The Giver to see if she saw herself in it. The proudest I ever was of my Dad was when I was in the 6th grade and the teacher complained to him that I "read too fast. I was finished before any of the other children." My father asked if I could answer questions, discuss things from the book, pass a test. . . whatever, and when she responded, "yes," he proceeded to ask her what the problem was.

Bully for you, but even 'bullier' for that little one of yours!

[ontheroad]

Some educators are born to teach; others are employed.

I like that story about you reading too fast, and your father's support.

Parents play an important role in education, and education is a partnership...me thinks.

[RH1]

Originally Posted by cpg35223

Thomas Pynchon. Sorry. I know the literati will swoop down on me. But I find the man to be utterly unreadable.

I make my living as a writer with one novel published to nice critical reviews and another one in the works. However, I certainly DON'T claim literary eminence here. But I think there is a widening gulf between what is considered to be literary fiction and what is a good read. I believe strongly that a novel can be challenging and readable at the same time.

That's why I also hate James Joyce (After Dubliners, which I consider to be the finest set of short stories ever written). Finnegan's Wake and Ulysses are incredibly incoherent books that have continued to be propped up by a cottage industry of Joyce scholars, whose only argument seems to be that James Joyce is a great writer because he's a great writer. However, his writing wasn't even particularly groundbreaking, given that Laurence Sterne did a much better job with Tristram Shandy, a good 150 years earlier. .

I've been quite disappointed with the general opinion about James Joyce on here. I've never read anything of his, but I did have Finnegan's Wake on my list of things to read because of a comparison that I read on a movie review (it may have been either Memento or Mulholland Drive) so I thought I might like it. I went to the library and they only had Portrait of.. so I borrowed that and couldn't get into it. I had promised myself I'd give it another try, but now I'm having second thoughts.

Originally Posted by cpg35223

Meanwhile, I'm not inclined to be snobbish about writers such as Robin Cook, Tom Clancy.

Oh I am. That's very honourable of you though. And you're right, they're honest about their intentions and different things appeal to different people.

I also found RDSLOTS's comments about storytellers vs writers very insightful. That might be why I have such a problem with Dan Brown.

I'd love to write a book one day, but I can't seem to string an interesting story together (or some may say 'coherent sentence'). I don't think I'm a storyteller.

[cpg35223]

Originally Posted by RH1

I've been quite disappointed with the general opinion about James Joyce on here. I've never read anything of his, but I did have Finnegan's Wake on my list of things to read because of a comparison that I read on a movie review (it may have been either Memento or Mulholland Drive) so I thought I might like it. I went to the library and they only had Portrait of.. so I borrowed that and couldn't get into it. I had promised myself I'd give it another try, but now I'm having second thoughts.

Oh I am. That's very honourable of you though. And you're right, they're honest about their intentions and different things appeal to different people.

I also found RDSLOTS's comments about storytellers vs writers very insightful. That might be why I have such a problem with Dan Brown.

I'd love to write a book one day, but I can't seem to string an interesting story together (or some may say 'coherent sentence'). I don't think I'm a storyteller.

Well, read Dubliners by Joyce, particularly The Dead. Just a great, great short story. The pinnacle of the form, really. I think Joyce was a great short story writer who churned out unreadable novels. However, the fact that Ulysses was banned in the United States for a while made it fashionable, thereby cementing its undeserving place in the pantheon of "great" novels.

As far as writing a novel is concerned, the best time to start is now. It's really a matter of approach. Think of Aristotle's advice when undertaking a huge task--break it up into a lot of little tasks. Start with the germ of an idea...a single sentence such as "A man who grieves over the death of his wife seeks solace in attending the funerals of others" (That's my current novel by the way, so no stealing it. LOL).

Your next move isn't to start writing Chapter One. Instead, spend several months accumulating notes. Interesting aspects of your characters. Plot ideas. Themes. Deciding what is the Big Story and what is the Little Story. Ancillary characters and their purpose. Snippets of dialog. Write an entire backstory on each of your major characters so you can understand how they're supposed to act in any given situation.

And, for God's sake, figure out how to end the thing before you write. That's where most novels go wrong. The writer has a good idea, but doesn't know where to take it. So what you have is a narrative that meanders around the middle section before the writer finally decides to end the thing and plunge it down an illogical rabbit hole.

Then you write. Set an objective of 500 words a day. Or 1000. Don't write more than that. If you have energy after popping off your 500 or 1000 words, then go back and polish what you've just written. Do all this, and you'll have the first draft of a novel within 9 months of your first germ of an idea without really breaking a sweat.

[Debsi]

If enjoyment of a book is an integral facet of a "good book," then I'd have to agree that Joyce's Ulysses does NOT belong on the good book list. It's the most difficult and abstruse book I've ever had the misfortune to read. I took a 10 week seminar on it in college, such joy is mine.

My professor was such a huge Joyce fan he taught that seminar every year, although he was in the math department not the lit department. So I always figured I must be missing something?

[cpg35223]

Originally Posted by Debsi

If enjoyment of a book is an integral facet of a "good book," then I'd have to agree that Joyce's Ulysses does NOT belong on the good book list. It's the most difficult and abstruse book I've ever had the misfortune to read. I took a 10 week seminar on it in college, such joy is mine.

My professor was such a huge Joyce fan he taught that seminar every year, although he was in the math department not the lit department. So I always figured I must be missing something?

Thank you for that.

I don't think that a book has to be entertaining. Far from it. At the same time, I would maintain that a book has to be understandable. After all, writing is the art of COMMUNICATION. I have a relatively high IQ, a postgraduate degree in the humanities, and shelves that groan with weighty books. My favorite play is Death Of A Salesman. Yet when I cannot get through 20 pages of Ulysses without being hopelessly confused, that means the writer, not the reader has failed.