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I didn't say that it wasn't culturally diverse. I just said that it's whiter than its peer cities. Philly and NYC also have a lot of ethnic whites, but their combined Black/Hispanic/Asian percentages are still higher on a metro level.
And statistics don't tell the whole story. If you're interviewing at a firm and you review the website, are there any associates of color beyond the two Asians and racially ambiguous fella shamelessly plastered to the firm's Diversity Page. Are there any minorities in influential positions in the business community there? These are things a lot of minorities are going to look at. Some may like Boston and stay (or move there), but many others may feel that their professional opportunities are limited by the lack of diversity in their field. Not to mention that their social life may be severely lacking. So it's not enough to just point at statistics. A black Harvard graduate wants to hang out at the typical Mattapan nightclub about as much as a White Harvard graduate wants to hang out at the typical Sandusky, Ohio sports bar next to the camshaft assembly plant.
I think some people may say: "Well, the Governor of Massachusetts is black. How could Boston not be great for black people??" They need to understand that that's just one guy. I don't think a lot of people understand that you can go to cities like DC and encounter black radiologists, endocrinologists, antitrust lawyers, researchers, engineers, etc. and not really think anything of it. You could walk into many coffeeshops on U Street and see as many black hipsters, professionals and "bupsters" punching away at their Macbooks as you do white.
Well usually I don't go out of my way to remember the racial makeup of the restaurants I go to, but if I remember correctly a few of the restaurants I've been to fairly recently with a diverse crowd of people with similar socioeconomic backgrounds are Bonchon, the Chinatown Cafe, the Chipolte on Brookline ave, and the Fire and Ice in Cambridge. Actually, I remember I was in Dave and Busters in Braintree a few weeks ago and the crowd was fairly diverse, compared to your origional percentages at least. There are really a lot of places outside of the touristy areas where you could potentially find that sort of crowd, at least in my experience.
Again, the point is, you shouldn't have to search high and low, or really think to yourself to name a few places. Go to DC or NYC (for example) and you really don't have to think "Is this a diverse city?" or "When is the last time I saw diversity at XYZ?"
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Not to mention the fact that there are towns like Randolph (39% white, 37%black, 12% asian), Quincy (65% white, 24% asian, 4% black), and Cambridge (62% white, 15% asian, 11% black) that are all solidly middle class and have relatively strong minority populations. It's not like the Boston area totally lacks relatively strong, middle class minority groups.
This isn't Boston, it's Quincy and Randolph. You can't say Boston is diverse by listing other cities nearby.
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What I don't understand is why you base your definition of "diversity" around the number of "black" clubs and bars in the downtown area.
You're right, I used AA because in every city I've been too, there is normally a strong section of AA nightlife and is Boston there is none, so it's a very easy and clear point to make when talking about diversity. Unless you wanted me to list every miniority and lack there of nightlife toward them?
Tell you what, show me that diverse mix of any minority in Boston.
Note: The answer isn't going to be listing some census number as you seem to enjoy doing as proof.
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Next, why does diversity depend on the presence of African Americans alone? Boston proper (along with the neighboring towns) has a very strong Asian presence (see origional post for comparisons). Have you ever been to Cambridge or Allston or Quincy? Imo, you relly don't need to "search high and low" to find a diverse crowd in Boston.
Listen, you asked if Bostin is a white city? Then as reasoning to your answer you list census data and talk about cities outside of Boston. Awesome. People coming into Boston, aren't going to travel to Quincy or Allston. They're going to travel to downtown and other tourist areas.
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Are you serious?! Please see my origional post! Boston is the 2nd most Asian US city east of California and more Hispanic than alot of other cities particularly east coast cities(SF, Philly, Baltimore, DC, Seattle)!
Boston had the 6th highest amount of immigration from South America and the 4th largest amount of African immigrants( though I would subtract 2 from each of those rankings as LA and NY have the most of everything). Now you could say that the reasons for the immigration are purely economic, but why would immigrants from South America and Africa choose to come to Boston over other cities with healthy economies like Minneapolis, Houston, SF, etc. Or my point is: why would they choose Boston over those other cities if Boston wasn't a good place for minorities?
Numbers really do not tell the truth when dealing with this subject. You keep listing these stats as your go to answer and I can't understand why.
If Boston had the largest amount of XYZ minority, but offered zero to low establishments toward that same minority, it's not diverse. The whole point of diversity is a mix of groups/people. If Boston doesn't offer that mix of bars/clubs/food stores/whatever the heck you want to place here, it's not diverse.
Definition of DIVERSITY
1 : the condition of having or being composed of differing elements :variety; especially: the inclusion of different types of people (as people of different races or cultures) in a group or organization <programs intended to promote diversity in schools>
Clearly having little minority nightlife/businesses in general is contradictory to the "inclusion" thing.
If all the AAs in Boston area in 3 subsections of the city and not downtown, they're not included in the makeup of downtown.
But your numbers don't go into that detail.
Put it another way so you understand what I'm trying to get across here.
If you have a city with 90% red, 10% blue(extreme numbers for example only) and that 10% blue hold most of the jobs, have most of the sections of the city, the nightlife, etc etc. It wouldn't be diverse toward that 90% red; even though the city itself is in fact 90% red.
Population, numbers and data, it helps but it doesn't tell the true story if all mixes are included / welcomed.
Clearly minorities in Boston arean't included. And just because you're friends with 2 AA and an Asian or whatever, doesn't mean Boston is accepted, including, and welcoming of miniorities.
If all the AAs in Boston area in 3 subsections of the city and not downtown, they're not included in the makeup of downtown.
But your numbers don't go into that detail.
Put it another way so you understand what I'm trying to get across here.
If you have a city with 90% red, 10% blue(extreme numbers for example only) and that 10% blue hold most of the jobs, have most of the sections of the city, the nightlife, etc etc. It wouldn't be diverse toward that 90% red; even though the city itself is in fact 90% red.
Population, numbers and data, it helps but it doesn't tell the true story if all mixes are included / welcomed.
Clearly minorities in Boston arean't included. And just because you're friends with 2 AA and an Asian or whatever, doesn't mean Boston is accepted, including, and welcoming of miniorities.
Again, it seems like all the whiners are AA and it doesn't matter that Boston has a Chinatown and a Little Italy. And the "downtown" is so small that there really isn't any area for having other blocks devoted to one race or culture. AND... historically, we never had a mini Harlem, so where would you put it now? And would you want to force one in somewhere? And if so, where would you like your mini Harlem to be?
And as to the tourist attractions, we are big on our USS Constitution, the Tea Party Ship and the Freedom Trail. Most of Boston's major tourist attractions have no historical AA presence. And there wasn't any Asian or Hispanic presence either. Blacks, Asians and Hispanics also weren't at the Mayflower landing at Plymouth Rock nor in Old Sturbridge Village, and you can't rewrite history just because you want AA to be represented there now.
Downtown Boston real estate is super expensive and small, so most other small pockets of other cultures develop outside of Boston proper. There are little clusters of Brazilians everywhere, with their neighborhoods and shops. And for a start, the AA community in Boston could start off by opening their own little mom and pop businesses elsewhere first, saving their money before making a go in downtown Boston. The Asian, Italians, Greeks, and Brazilian immigrants don't seem to have a problem having their own small businesses, so the AA should be able to accomplish this also.
And I don't think that Boston is unwelcoming to blacks, I think that we are neutral to welcoming about their presence. We are neutral in the sense that if black businesses popped up in downtown Boston, no one would fight them coming. Honestly, I wouldn't care at all if a whole bunch of them opened up downtown. And in terms of welcoming, well we have a black governor and the METCO school program.
Otherwise, I think that I would be really annoyed if there was some sort of affirmative action where grants and other special treatment were handed out to AA wanting to open businesses in downtown Boston. And it's because historically those handout programs don't work. I feel that change has to come naturally and gradually in order for those improvements to work and become permanent. When you rush to make social changes, those programs fail and at great expense to the taxpayers.
Right now, I do think that in all grade schools, particularly in areas where the chronically poor live, the students should have several years of REAL home economics classes so that they can learn how to plan their goals and learn to save towards them. Too many of the young black people I work with have zero clues on how to manage their money. They are all about instant gratification and don't have the patience to wait to pay for a luxury item out of their nonexistent savings account. It's all about either buying on credit or living week to week on their paychecks. And that is very sad and worrisome to me.
And BTW, a question for the AA in this thread... how would you feel about "black" themed bars and clubs owned by whites, Asians or Hispanics? Would still patronize them? Or protest them...
Not sure why a discussion about Boston being a "white" city has to devolve in to being angry about "affirmative action programs" and such. No one asked for Boston to do anything or to make any changes. The thread was asking "why?" Why does Boston, a city with a 25% Black population, and a city where several famous Black historical figures got their start, have a reputation for being a "White city?"
If any discussion about race has to devolve into being angry about non-existent affirmative action programs, then we're done here.
I know it's become popular for some people to think that all black people think Atlanta is Mecca and desperately want to move there, but there are some blacks that would take Boston over Atlanta.
Please point out where I said "all" black people want to move to Atlanta? Why even raise such a ridiculous counter point?
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Originally Posted by eevee
I'm not getting why so many posts have been devoted to the supposed lack of diverse clubs. Boston isn't that sort of city. How many clubs out there aren't geared more towards the college crowd? Boston has a tiny entertainment district compared to Miami, LA, NYC, or heck, even Chicago. IDK, after I turned 21, I grew real tired of the whole club scene. How many grown adults are still going out clubbing every weekend?
My posts certainly weren't devoted exclusively to diverse clubs and/or restaurants. I also brought up the ranks of professional minorities, politicians, the business community, etc. But the social scene is obviously a major concern for most young people. And a city's social scene is not limited to bombastic, bottle-popping clubs.
Please point out where I said "all" black people want to move to Atlanta? Why even raise such a ridiculous counter point?
My posts certainly weren't devoted exclusively to diverse clubs and/or restaurants. I also brought up the ranks of professional minorities, politicians, the business community, etc. But the social scene is obviously a major concern for most young people. And a city's social scene is not limited to bombastic, bottle-popping clubs.
Other thoughts... the minorities who are serious career professionals in Boston aren't all that interested in wasting their hard earned money in glitzy clubs. And the best clubs in the US are in cities where they are strongholds of the entertainment industry. So that is why LA, NYC, Las Vegas, Miami and Atlanta have the best nightlife. Boston is a geeky college town and also smaller geographically.
"Glitzy clubs" are not the extent of social life in a city.
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Originally Posted by miu
Otherwise historically, bars and clubs that cater to a diverse crowd tend to also have problems with troublemakers causing drama and hurt to the other clientele. Lawrence has many Hispanic clubs and bars, but no way would I ever want to go to them.
Yes, in cities where there are few minority professionals such as Boston.
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Originally Posted by miu
And being Asian, well all my life I have accepted that we're only 6% of the overall US population. And it's never bothered me when I was outnumbered by white people. Blacks are only 12% of the US population, and I'm tired of them complaining when in certain situations, they aren't represented by 50%. Get over it. 12% means out of 100 people in a room, there are only 12 black people there. And if you want to see and experience a black majority city, go visit a country in Africa, or go to Haiti or Jamaica.
Again, why are you so hung up on black people? It's like you're locked on to that demographic specifically whenever the word "minority" is mentioned.
Not sure why a discussion about Boston being a "white" city has to devolve in to being angry about "affirmative action programs" and such. No one asked for Boston to do anything or to make any changes. The thread was asking "why?" Why does Boston, a city with a 25% Black population, and a city where several famous Black historical figures got their start, have a reputation for being a "White city?"
If any discussion about race has to devolve into being angry about non-existent affirmative action programs, then we're done here.
Well, someone apparently has a big, dull axe to grind. It's common on City-Data.
Again, why are you so hung up on black people? It's like you're locked on to that demographic specifically whenever the word "minority" is mentioned.
BECAUSE... the only specific complaints about Boston's lack of "diversity" are about the lack of BLACK bars and clubs in the downtown area.
Historically, Boston never ever had a significant number of blacks in the area. We didn't have black slaves in Boston or MA. And because our winters are so cold, Boston was never a prime destination for blacks later on.
Otherwise, blacks should just get comfortable with being (at present) a 12% minority group in the US and not be all hung up over not seeing themselves everywhere as equally as white people. They really need to stop complaining about how "white" certain cities and neighborhoods are. The world doesn't revolve around them.
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