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Considering what you are telling me, there is something else I had to think of. You claim that most the Blacks you have come into contact with haven't impressed you. I also mentioned that part of it could be that you have worked in the restaurant industry, and alot of people who work in restaurants do so because it doesn't require alot of education. There is something else I want to mention. Have you considered that alot of educated Blacks and professional Blacks try not to hang around Black people who behave in the manner you have described? I've noticed this. Perhaps the reason is that the Blacks who "would impress you" tend not to hang around people like those you describe. Have you considered that?
No. I work on several university campuses, MIT and Harvard are just two of them. A good number of my black co-workers are college students. And the guests are professors, administrators and other adults attending symposiums. So I'd say that I've had plenty of opportunity to rub elbows with highly educated blacks.
No. I work on several university campuses, MIT and Harvard are just two of them. A good number of my black co-workers are college students. And the guests are professors, administrators and other adults attending symposiums. So I'd say that I've had plenty of opportunity to rub elbows with highly educated blacks.
Well I've had the same opportunity to rub shoulders with educated Blacks. Most educated Blacks I've been around do not behave like fools. Most Blacks that I have know who do behave like fools were often uneducated.
[quote=iAMtheVVALRUS;28728863]The post I was trying to respond to specifically asked for restaurants where you could see a diverse crowd.
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I don't really understand this. Are you saying that what is seen by tourists is a better representation of the city than what the residents see? If so, I disagree.
You asked "Why is Boston a "white" city?" Read your statement above. If tourists view the city as a "white" city, then it must be for some reason. Looking deeper into it, it seems that because places where tourists would visit are mainly "white" areas of Boston, there is your answer. I'm not sure how else to word this.
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I know you hate statistics and nummbers, but I really don't know what else you want as an answer... Numbers aside, Dorchester has diverse mix of minorities.
I work in business; attending grad school for my MBA in finance. I promise you one thing, I don't hate numbers.
What I was saying, and you seem to not understand it, and that numbers do not always give you the real answer.
Dorchester could be the most diverse zip code in the history of zip codes, it still doesn't change the price of tea in China. Meaning, downtown and the tourist areas are still very much "white." There is little to no diversity downtown, which was my main point as to why people call Boston "white." Lastly, not knocking on Dorchester, but are you really suggesting that people should hang out in Dorchester on a Saturday night to get a a diverse crowd or something? That's just as bad as hanging out in Allston/Brighton areas... nothing wrong with all 3 sections, when your in your younger 20s or something.
-- I am not from these areas nor have I lived there. That is just my limited viewpoint of those 3 sections.
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This works for the city population stats. You can argue that öh, Boston is 25% black, but they don't have much representation downtown" and this is a perfect example of "statistics not telling the truth".
Indeed. Numbers can lie.
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But the stats I just posted are completely different and tied to a completely different and valid point.
Boston has the 4th most immigration from Africa of any US city, behind only NYC, DC, and Atlanta, and ahead of San Francisco, Houston, Chicago, Minneapolis, Philadelphia, Los Angeles, Miami.
And Boston had the 6th most immigration from South America, behind NYC, LA, Miami, DC, and Orlando, ahead of SF, Chicago, Houston, Atlanta, Dallas, Denver, Philadelphia, etc.
And of course, though it didn't surpass other metros in terms of recent immigration, as I pointed out earlier, Boston proper (you did say in response to Randolph and Quincy that we should keep the conversation to Boston proper) was more Asian than any non-West Coast US city other than NYC.
Now the point here is: why would all these minorities be moving to Boston in such large numbers if they felt that Boston was devoid of any cultural and economic opportunities for them?
Use logic.
Logic and history tell me that minorities settle where family/friends have prevously relocated. NOT because Boston is this ubber cultural trend setting place where everyone wants to be. Come on now. These people moved to Boston because they had a brother, a sister, uncle, some family member or dear friend where they stay while they get started. It's an easier transition to the USA.
Logic also tells me that because Boston has some of the best schools in the world here, minorities travel and yes live in Boston (or nearby) to attend school. Since these minorities are attending some of the best schools with deep connections to the Boston area, they have often land good internships, which could lead to great careers in and around the Boston area.
Either way you slice this, minorities do not flock to Boston because of the cultural, the history, and all that junk, that'd do it for an easy transition & the economic benefits Boston can provide.
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See this is where I really lose you.
This is because the majority of Boston is not totally white, and not all the jobs (or an unusually large amount of jobs) are held by white people.
You're right, Boston isn't 100% white and not 100% of the jobs are going to white people.
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For sections...
Totally white (blue? lol) neighborhoods of city: Southie, Charlestown, North End, Brookline, West Roxbury, Back Bay, Beacon Hill.
Not white (red?) sections: Jamaica Plain, Allston/Brighton, Mission Hill, South End, Roxbury, Cambridge, Downtown Crossing, West End, Fenway, Dorchester, Mattapan, Roslindale, Somerville, Hyde Park.
I think you missed my point I was making with divesity. But anyway, I'd say out of the "Not White" listed sections, only a small amount would be viewed by tourists or people looking for a number on the town.
If people are going into Boston for a number out, it's often going to be near Faneuil Hall...which is pretty "white." And I've gone there since the 1990s. In the summer the Seaport area is very nice, but that too is very "white."
For nightlife...
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Depends on the neighborhood. Its easy to label Boston's restaurants and whatnot as not-diverse by looking at the "downtown" area, but you have to remember that "downtown" Boston (I'm guessing you mean Back Bay, Beacon Hill, and the North End) has many very white neighborhoods, and is the center of a very white metro.
Ding ding ding. "Why is Boston a white city?" This. The downtown area is "white" as I've said since day 1.
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If you want to see more diversity, not clubs though, you need to leave downtown and go into Boston's neighborhoods to see more diversity. For example, in my neighborhood, Allston, there are maybe 5 non-minority restaurants (O'Brien's pub, Brighton Beer Garden, The Tavern in the Square, "Big City" Bar I don't know the name, and an Italian resaurant) otherwise in the stretch from Union Square to Packards Corner you have maybe up to thrity restaurants ranging from Vietnamese to Burmese to Korean to Turkish to Brazillian
.
I think the point here is, often other major cities have sections downtown with diversity, and Boston really doesn't have that.
Now I won't disagree with your views on Allston, you live there and will clearly have a better understanding of the current makeup of that section. From my viewpoint however, when I think of Allston, I think college kids, and sometimes I'm just not in the mood to deal with that. I don't think that people looking for divesity should be have to hang out with 20 somethings at or near college bars to find it. I'm sure not ALL of Allston is like that, but clearly a large number of that section is indeed college kids.
BECAUSE... the only specific complaints about Boston's lack of "diversity" are about the lack of BLACK bars and clubs in the downtown area.
Historically, Boston never ever had a significant number of blacks in the area. We didn't have black slaves in Boston or MA. And because our winters are so cold, Boston was never a prime destination for blacks later on.
Otherwise, blacks should just get comfortable with being (at present) a 12% minority group in the US and not be all hung up over not seeing themselves everywhere as equally as white people. They really need to stop complaining about how "white" certain cities and neighborhoods are. The world doesn't revolve around them.
There were slaves in MA. Look up Crispus Attacks or Paul Cuffee for references. It's more like 13-14%, btw.
There were slaves in MA. Look up Crispus Attacks or Paul Cuffee for references. It's more like 13-14%, btw.
It's amazing how one stucked in an isolated little TOWN called Syracuse in Upstate New York would quote or reference everything from Wikipedia. It is only the close minded who would make the connection between African-American with slavery. Welcome to 21 century where the word slavery only exists in the dictionary. There must be tons of stuff to do then coming to the Boston forum. Try traveling with your kids to Boston because it could very intellectual as well as fun.
Last edited by WestonMassSAHM; 03-25-2013 at 07:05 AM..
It's amazing how one stucked in an isolated little TOWN called Syracuse in Upstate New York would quote or reference everything from Wikipedia. It is only the close minded who would make the connection between African-American with slavery. Welcome to 21 century where the word slavery only exists in the dictionary. There must be tons of stuff to do then coming to the Boston forum. Try traveling with your kids to Boston because it could very intellectual as well as fun.
What are you talking about? I was interested in seeing what was discussed in the thread. Have you been to Syracuse? I've been to Boston and actually liked more than I thought I would. With that said, Massachusetts had slavery and those 2 men were examples of slaves or descendant of a slave in Massachusetts that did great things. So, I stand by my point and correction to the statement that there weren't slaves in MA. Paul Cuffee Picture and Biography - New Bedford - www.WhalingCity.net
There have been Black people in the Boston area for centuries. I've even seen in a 1920 census where a neighborhood in Cambridge had Black people with roots or came from Barbados and The Canadian Maritimes(most likely Nova Scotia). So, Boston has had a diverse Black community for a long time.
You asked "Why is Boston a "white" city?" Read your statement above. If tourists view the city as a "white" city, then it must be for some reason. Looking deeper into it, it seems that because places where tourists would visit are mainly "white" areas of Boston, there is your answer. I'm not sure how else to word this.
I think you missed my point I was making with divesity. But anyway, I'd say out of the "Not White" listed sections, only a small amount would be viewed by tourists or people looking for a number on the town.
If people are going into Boston for a number out, it's often going to be near Faneuil Hall...which is pretty "white." And I've gone there since the 1990s. In the summer the Seaport area is very nice, but that too is very "white."
Well, first, though I asked "why is Boston a "white" city?" my own opinion on the matter is that it's not.
I agree that a reason why Boston could be considered a white city is that torists only spend time in the Back Bay, Beacon Hill, and the North End.
What I think, however, is that this philosophy is flawed. Whenever I walk around Manhattan for a day to see the tourist traps, I don't assume that New York and its metro are all full of skyscrapers, neon lights, people, and diversity. In fact, I can drive through the Bronx, or Stamford, or White Plains, and know that it's not.
In Boston's case, it's the reverse. The downtown areas are not very diverse compared to the inner suburbs and metro area cities.
The fact that tourists only see the "white" areas of the city doesn't mean that Boston is in fact a "white" city.
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Lastly, not knocking on Dorchester, but are you really suggesting that people should hang out in Dorchester on a Saturday night to get a a diverse crowd or something? That's just as bad as hanging out in Allston/Brighton areas... nothing wrong with all 3 sections, when your in your younger 20s or something.
Now I won't disagree with your views on Allston, you live there and will clearly have a better understanding of the current makeup of that section. From my viewpoint however, when I think of Allston, I think college kids, and sometimes I'm just not in the mood to deal with that. I don't think that people looking for divesity should be have to hang out with 20 somethings at or near college bars to find it. I'm sure not ALL of Allston is like that, but clearly a large number of that section is indeed college kids
Very true., and point taken. I just wanted to point out that diverse areas do exist.
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Logic and history tell me that minorities settle where family/friends have prevously relocated. NOT because Boston is this ubber cultural trend setting place where everyone wants to be. Come on now. These people moved to Boston because they had a brother, a sister, uncle, some family member or dear friend where they stay while they get started. It's an easier transition to the USA.
Logic also tells me that because Boston has some of the best schools in the world here, minorities travel and yes live in Boston (or nearby) to attend school. Since these minorities are attending some of the best schools with deep connections to the Boston area, they have often land good internships, which could lead to great careers in and around the Boston area.
Either way you slice this, minorities do not flock to Boston because of the cultural, the history, and all that junk, that'd do it for an easy transition & the economic benefits Boston can provide.
I don't really get how this contradicts what I was saying. Minorities are moving to Boston for the economic opportunities, and while this doesn't mean that Boston is a super trendy place for minorities to live, it does show that Boston isn't a bad place for minorities. If it were, Boston would have no immigration & historically would have had no immigration. Instead they'd all flock to cities like Seattle, SF, and Houston, all of which also have pretty healthy economies.
Also, don't logic and history also tell us that in most cases things like culture, history, and all that junk tend to follow economically-provoked migration?
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I think the point here is, often other major cities have sections downtown with diversity, and Boston really doesn't have that.
I mean (as I've said before) DTX, the West End, and the South End are all fairly diverse, but there also fairly ignored. Otherwise this is true/a good point. I wonder why this is. Maybe, its just because the fact that Boston's old neighborhoods are its main tourist attraction. I think generally the old rich neighborhoods of cities like Boston are mostly white, for example I just searched the Upper East and West Sides of NYC on CD and both (though especially the East) are mostly white. Therefore, since Boston doesn't have a Midtown-type tourist attraction like NYC, the "downtown" area of Boston is acctually Boston's upper East/West Side (Back Bay/North End/Beacon Hill) and that's what everyone sees, and that's why they think of Boston as "white". I don't really know.
What I think, however, is that this philosophy is flawed. Whenever I walk around Manhattan for a day to see the tourist traps, I don't assume that New York and its metro are all full of skyscrapers, neon lights, people, and diversity. In fact, I can drive through the Bronx, or Stamford, or White Plains, and know that it's not.
In Boston's case, it's the reverse. The downtown areas are not very diverse compared to the inner suburbs and metro area cities.
The fact that tourists only see the "white" areas of the city doesn't mean that Boston is in fact a "white" city.
I agree with your post.
But one thing I wanted to add to what you said above.
When visiting NYC -- Manhattan using your previous example, there is NO WAY anyone on Earth would say that section of NYC isn't diverse. I mean it's just so large with millions of people from all over the world, it's like a perfect view of diversity is a large area, IMO.
On the other hand, Boston is CLEARLY not like that. It's a shame too because I must before the history and architecture of Boston over NYC. But I enjoy the cultural mix and diversity of NYC over Boston.
But one thing I wanted to add to what you said above.
When visiting NYC -- Manhattan using your previous example, there is NO WAY anyone on Earth would say that section of NYC isn't diverse. I mean it's just so large with millions of people from all over the world, it's like a perfect view of diversity is a large area, IMO.
On the other hand, Boston is CLEARLY not like that. It's a shame too because I must before the history and architecture of Boston over NYC. But I enjoy the cultural mix and diversity of NYC over Boston.
Once again, Boston is MUCH smaller in land size than NYC. We will never EVER be like NYC, nor do we want to be like NYC. So go live in NYC then!!!!!!!!!
And Boston has a great cultural mix, but more of a white European cultural mix. It's just how the waves of immigration hit us years ago. And that's why we have the Irish, Italian and Russian Jewish neighborhoods. We had a bigger Chinatown, but it was sliced up by city developments. And yes, our downtown area is very small. I suppose we could have given up our beloved Boston Commons to build apartment buildings on them, but that's an important green space. And why wouldn't the real estate around Beacon Hill be upscale? Our state house is right next to it.
Every single city on this planet is different and unique. No city is universally a best fit for everyone. And Boston is happy and content being the way it's developed naturally over time and we have no interest in all trying to appeal to someone such as yourself. So many people want to move to Boston, that our real estate values are among the highest in the country.
And by the same token, cities like NYC, LA, Chicago and SF are happy being themselves and not interested in becoming a Boston. There is no competition here, just people with their personal preferences and needs.
Also, if a hundred years from now, Boston is still known as a "white city", I think that Bostonians will still be fine with that description. Anyway, I love our current cultural mix in the Boston area.
Once again, Boston is MUCH smaller in land size than NYC. We will never EVER be like NYC, nor do we want to be like NYC. So go live in NYC then!!!!!!!!!
And Boston has a great cultural mix, but more of a white European cultural mix. It's just how the waves of immigration hit us years ago. And that's why we have the Irish, Italian and Russian Jewish neighborhoods. We had a bigger Chinatown, but it was sliced up by city developments. And yes, our downtown area is very small. I suppose we could have given up our beloved Boston Commons to build apartment buildings on them, but that's an important green space. And why wouldn't the real estate around Beacon Hill be upscale? Our state house is right next to it.
Every single city on this planet is different and unique. No city is universally a best fit for everyone. And Boston is happy and content being the way it's developed naturally over time and we have no interest in all trying to appeal to someone such as yourself. So many people want to move to Boston, that our real estate values are among the highest in the country.
And by the same token, cities like NYC, LA, Chicago and SF are happy being themselves and not interested in becoming a Boston. There is no competition here, just people with their personal preferences and needs.
Also, if a hundred years from now, Boston is still known as a "white city", I think that Bostonians will still be fine with that description. Anyway, I love our current cultural mix in the Boston area.
First, I didn't know you spoke for all Bostonians. Second, I think if Boston has the label of being a "white city" future years, shame on Boston. I do not believe Boston has a great cultural mix. It sure does if you're Irish though, Italian second. That's not really a good mix, that's two countries...TWO. I believe the Dutch had control over the area of what is now NYC, but it's like when people think of NYC they think "Oh there is a lot of Dutch people there." or something to that affect. However, Boston, you think of Irish. I'm not sure if that's good or bad to be honest. I think it's great to keep track of history, remember where you come from and such, but also understand that changes has occured and the culture should reflect that.
I'm well aware of how different cities are around the world bud. I lived overseas and deployed/traveled to god knows how many areas in the world. That's not the point.
I feel like either you are trolling at this point, or just don't understand, and I mean truly understand some of the points people have made with this post. I'm still trying to decide which is it.
I said I liked the cultural parts of NYC more, its truly a city that never sleeps, it's easier to meet people. etc. And your reponse was "Move to NYC then!!" I mean it's my views, my thoughts. I'm grown, well traveled and educated. I have a right to an option, yes? And sure you have the same right to reply with your reponse.
NYC is too costly, and I can't afford to live in that city. Nor would I want to decrease my living space to meet that of NYC, ie a "large" 250 sq ft apartment. As my pay is set working for the Govt, there isn't a significant increase in their mind at least, to the cost of living between Boston & NYC. Otherwise, I would move there. Is that okay with you?
Cities always have pros and cons to them. My thoughts of the cons for Boston are very aligned to the topic at hand, Boston being a "white" city.
Just wondering, have you traveled a lot? Have you been to a large number of other cities in USA and the world?
I ask because... well quit frankly, Boston might have the worse culture and divesity mix of any modern city I've ever been too in my life. Now that's just my option, but you seem to think it's the holy mecca of sorts. And again that is your option and we can agree to disagree with that.
On a slightly different topic I find that the people in Boston are boarderline very rude and unfriendly. People have lived here their entire lives, so they're not welcoming to transplants as other cities might be. This is different for college students of course. This is just my experience, yours might be completely different. Who knows?
Last edited by mhsclassof00; 03-27-2013 at 07:01 AM..
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